Trying to solve the dreaded Jeppesen Navadata chip monthly update

[231LV]

Most of us remember the days when paper plates were updated by hand every month...searching through thick binders to find the obsolete plate and replace it with a "new" plate that looks identical to the old. Then magic came along and we went digital. Gone were the paper plates (some here probably still carry them as a backup, I bet) and our e-devices became our plate holders and we could update them digitally. However, to do so, at least in my situation, requires me to go up to the airport and pull the navdata chip or card, if some prefer, and bring it back home and plug in the Garmin adapter into my laptop and download the files for the update and then return the chip to the plane. I know a second chip can make this task a bit easier but a second WAAS orange card is insanely expensive when bought from Jeppesen and buying them online may or may not work depending on the chip. A while back, I recall reading about a portable device (can't recall the company name) that allowed me to go to the airport and simply using my phone, could update the chip as I sat in the airplane (of course the chip must be removed and slid into this device.) Does anyone know of anything like this?

[KSMooniac]

If you're running newer Garmin gear, I believe you're thinking of the Flightstream 510 device. Doesn't work for older GNS series boxes, but I believe it will for GTN boxes and maybe G500/G1000 or G3X.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[LANCECASPER]

58 minutes ago, 231LV said:

Most of us remember the days when paper plates were updated by hand every month...searching through thick binders to find the obsolete plate and replace it with a "new" plate that looks identical to the old. Then magic came along and we went digital. Gone were the paper plates (some here probably still carry them as a backup, I bet) and our e-devices became our plate holders and we could update them digitally. However, to do so, at least in my situation, requires me to go up to the airport and pull the navdata chip or card, if some prefer, and bring it back home and plug in the Garmin adapter into my laptop and download the files for the update and then return the chip to the plane. I know a second chip can make this task a bit easier but a second WAAS orange card is insanely expensive when bought from Jeppesen and buying them online may or may not work depending on the chip. A while back, I recall reading about a portable device (can't recall the company name) that allowed me to go to the airport and simply using my phone, could update the chip as I sat in the airplane (of course the chip must be removed and slid into this device.) Does anyone know of anything like this?

There was something called a Wombat, but I think that is discontinued.   https://bad-elf.com/pages/wombat-piston

Do you have unlimited data on your phone or tablet or at least enough hotspot data every month to use it to connect to your laptop so you can make one trip?

If you need some help with this Private Message me. I'd be glad to walk you through it.

[ta2too]

12 minutes ago, 231LV said:

Most of us remember the days when paper plates were updated by hand every month...searching through thick binders to find the obsolete plate and replace it with a "new" plate that looks identical to the old. Then magic came along and we went digital. Gone were the paper plates (some here probably still carry them as a backup, I bet) and our e-devices became our plate holders and we could update them digitally. However, to do so, at least in my situation, requires me to go up to the airport and pull the navdata chip or card, if some prefer, and bring it back home and plug in the Garmin adapter into my laptop and download the files for the update and then return the chip to the plane. I know a second chip can make this task a bit easier but a second WAAS orange card is insanely expensive when bought from Jeppesen and buying them online may or may not work depending on the chip. A while back, I recall reading about a portable device (can't recall the company name) that allowed me to go to the airport and simply using my phone, could update the chip as I sat in the airplane (of course the chip must be removed and slid into this device.) Does anyone know of anything like this?

You might be thinking of the Bad Elf "Wombat". I have one and you simply insert the data card and download the updates. Unfortunately, I just checked theirwebsite and it is now discontinued. Don't know if there is an upgrade or replacement

[Brandt]

And the FS510 card is largely useless

[McMooney]

take you laptop/tablet to the airport, tether it to your phone update at the airport.

ok not much of an improvement 8)

I just purchased online and made my own card think it cost like 8 or 9$

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

In a few years a few of us geezers will tell the youngsters “I recall when you had to carry your laptop out to the airplane and manually update the data…”  

[231LV]

Yes it was the wombat I was thinking of and yes, it has been discontinued. Sadly, it seems, no other company sees a market for this type of a device. Using my phone as a hotspot is an alternative but the bandwidth is pretty small compared to the download so I suspect I would be sitting up there quite awhile waiting for it to download the updates....thanks all for the suggestions...

[201Mooniac]

The Wombat is great, I still use mine on occasion.  In the OP post, there is a mention of the WAAS orange card, this makes me think this is referencing a GPS-430W.  The Wombat will not work on those cards.  I'm not aware of any solution other than a laptop with the adapter for doing upgrades at the airplane for the 430Ws.

[EricJ]

My IFD is super simple to update using a USB thumb drive, and I maintain the databases on a couple CAP aircraft with G1000s that are very clunky, but not too awful.   We had temporary custody of a CAP airplane that had a G3X and GTN navigator.    Having never done it before and without any guidance I attempted to update the GTN and had zero success.   I don't feel so bad now, but it does seem like Garmin is going backwards in database maintainability for no benefit that I can discern.

I know that doesn't help.   It's just an observation.

 

[Schllc]

6 hours ago, Brandt said:

And the FS510 card is largely useless

I found in the NXI it wasn’t worth the hassle. Between connection issues and speed of the updates it was easier to just do the old way. 
I think it’s very different on the new stuff

[Schllc]

48 minutes ago, EricJ said:

My IFD is super simple to update using a USB thumb drive, and I maintain the databases on a couple CAP aircraft with G1000s that are very clunky, but not too awful.   We had temporary custody of a CAP airplane that had a G3X and GTN navigator.    Having never done it before and without any guidance I attempted to update the GTN and had zero success.   I don't feel so bad now, but it does seem like Garmin is going backwards in database maintainability for no benefit that I can discern.

I know that doesn't help.   It's just an observation.

 

Cross talk has been in boats since the beginning, not sure why it isn’t that way in aviation but I do not for a moment believe it’s Garmin. I bet it’s how onerous the FAA is with certifying these instruments independently. 

[EricJ]

5 minutes ago, Schllc said:

Cross talk has been in boats since the beginning, not sure why it isn’t that way in aviation but I do not for a moment believe it’s Garmin. I bet it’s how onerous the FAA is with certifying these instruments independently. 

My Avidyne IFD is pretty trivial to update, though.   Takes more time and effort to open the door and power up the panel than it does to update the database.  I'm not sure why it's so different with Garmin.

 

[larryb]

Garmin will solve this problem for you for only $4000 + installation.

GDL® 60 Datalink with PlaneSync™ Technology | Garmin

 

 

[Brandt]

2 hours ago, Schllc said:

I found in the NXI it wasn’t worth the hassle. Between connection issues and speed of the updates it was easier to just do the old way. 
I think it’s very different on the new stuff

Sorry, what’s the “new stuff?”  I’ve got the NXI Phase 2, which I thought was the latest version.  Transfer speeds are glacial, and that’s only when the system recognizes the update, which is roughly 1/3 of the time.  Garmin documentation is weak, and tech support is a roll of the dice as to who and what you get.  Deeply unimpressed.

[Schllc]

Just now, Brandt said:

Sorry, what’s the “new stuff?”  I’ve got the NXI Phase 2, which I thought was the latest version.  Transfer speeds are glacial, and that’s only when the system recognizes the update, which is roughly 1/3 of the time.  Garmin documentation is weak, and tech support is a roll of the dice as to who and what you get.  Deeply unimpressed.

Well, I just installed two 500txi’s a 750 and 650 in my Aerostar. 
hoping it is better.  Maybe it’s just wishful thinking. 
the g1000 may have been certified 20 years ago, but it probably was at least 10 years old before the feckless aviation administration approved it so the NXI is probably 20 years old by now!  
it was a LOT faster than the legacy g1000 I had, and a few more features.  But to be honest the only features really liked were the visual approaches, and the flight stream that allowed me to enter my routings on the phone and the upload directly. That was really nice. 

The data upload was a little faster too, but still finicky. 

[201Mooniac]

The GDL 60 relies on the same software on the panel units so I'm not sure it will be any more reliable.  As to "new stuff", the TXi and the GTN Xi now use 100Mb/s ethernet rather than 10Mb/s so it is faster than the "old stuff" but I don't know what the NXi uses so it might be the same.

[Marc_B]

I have GTNs/G500TXi and just bought an extra set of SD cards to keep in my flight bag. So I update 3 cards at my house at leisure, then swap cards, start up with update then turn off GTN750 to put back in FS510 card then power up and take off. Pretty simple and way faster than trying to use database concierge. 
From what I understand Xi/TXi store databases on unit instead of using SD card. So you don’t have to have most recent database on your card if you’ve already updated the unit—really this just matters with the FS510 card. Other cards can be rotated. 
From what i saw at osh this year, the new GDL would shine more with a complete garmin engine monitor/radio situation. Then you can wirelessly see how much fuel, see engine data, update databases, etc. wirelessly. Could really see how a jointly owned aircraft or club plane could benefit…oh crap, fuel is low, better call the FBO on the drive out.

[ricardo-sf]

a laptop and a cellular internet hotspot will solve this problem.

you can do the card updates planeside on your laptop.. no need to drive back and forth.

 

[Marc_B]

5 minutes ago, ricardo-sf said:

a laptop and a cellular internet hotspot will solve this problem.

Just make sure you don’t have bandwidth restrictions or slow connections. The databases on mine are large files, and takes 3-4 times a long using the FBO Wi-Fi than it does for me at home!

[wombat]

I'm struggling to get the terrain DB updated for my G500.   The Garmin DB update manager puts it on the top card, but the G500 seems to want it on the bottom card.   The G500 says "DB found in top card, move to bottom slot" or something similar, but if I do that, all of the other DBs get removed.

[Marc_B]

@wombat  I thought that was an old process and no longer needed re: top and bottom. I always use a single slot/card for all databases for both g500 legacy as well as TXi.  I used bottom slot exclusively with G500 and have the card in the top slot with my TXi. 

[wombat]

@Marc_BThanks, I'll try that out.   There is an option in the garmin DB manager to try to fit everything on a single card, so I'll give that a shot next time I'm up there.

 

[MikeOH]

Hmm…

While certainly not as convenient as an automatic middle-of-the-night Apple iOS update, I’ve never seen the big deal with taking the cards home with me after a flight and bringing them back updated the next time I fly.

What am I missing here?

[201Mooniac]

This morning I went to fly and decided to try uploading the databases wirelessly to the FS510 which I hadn't tried for awhile.  The new TXi and GTN Xi database upload software wasn't working for me but it turned out to be a Garmin Pilot problem and I deleted and reinstalled Garmin Pilot.  This time I started up, the database updates were recognized within about 5 seconds, and all were uploaded in about a minute including my Jepp charts.  It then asked if I wanted it to sync to the other units (TXi, other GTN, and GI275) and it then proceeded to do database sync obviously at the increased 100Mbps rate as it finished the database sync of all databases and restarted the displays in the 90 seconds it took to taxi to the runup.  The best database update experience I've ever had.  Now hopefully the next will go as smoothly.