252 approach configurations

[geoffb]

Any of you 252 or 262 drivers want to share your approach configurations?  Don’t feel like I’ve got the setup nailed.

thanks,  

[anthonydesmet]

Just my technique from 8 years and reading a lot of MAPA and Posts around here:  

Whether VFR or IFR on final and assuming a normal runway length >~ 3500 I leave my flaps at takeoff.  Strive for 95 knots abeam runway, 85 knots on base and getting to 75 knots on final (assuming no big gusts) if there is I carry a little more ~80kts or more depending on gust factor.  To maintain ~450fps you will have to keep some power.  If you’re coming from a trainer type airplane your days of chopping to idle when you make the runway are gone.  A wise Mooney pilot told me “you have to fly these things into the runway “, especially with a heavy nose 6 cylinder.  For a smooth approach a lot depends on having the airplane trimmed out to the right airspeed attitude.  Whether IFR or on VFR downwind I still loosely let go of the yoke to make sure I’m trimmed up in my airspeed.  Crossing the fence and into the flare remember to look long and I usually trim into the flare. For short runway, full flaps.

[Jerry 5TJ]

The MAPASF PPP material suggests specific power settings, aircraft configuration and airspeed for approaches.  Those are good guidelines.   

[geoffb]

Coming from an E model.  Looking specifically for ILS configuration.  In the previous bird I had no problem motoring to intercept at about 120mph, dropping the gear, slowing to about 100-105 and maintaining glide path with the throttle.  With this piggy, trying to go down and slow down with no flaps while keeping some manifold pressure in is causing me some fits.  Rolling down the glide path at 110 knots is fine unless you want to land from a 200ft breakout.

if I pull out more power, I can see  issues with CHT dropping below 240F.

[Z W]

For instrument approaches, I set power at the top of descent to 20" MP (below this is where my gear warning comes on), 2500 RPM.  This allows descent into the approach without picking up too much speed.  I leave the power set there, sometimes reducing it back down to 20 if required, until the final approach fix.  You should stabilize in level flight around 120 KIAS at this setting in a clean configuration, and the plane flies holds and turns very crisply.

I leave the gear and flaps up until the final approach fix / glideslope intercept.  Gear comes down at one dot below glideslope, which will naturally slow you to about 100 KIAS without changing your pitch much.  Reduce power to 16-18" MP, depending on the amount of your headwind, which will give you about a 500 FPM descent.  Once the speed drops into the white arc, I like to add takeoff flaps too.  Trim to maintain 100 KIAS hands-off, adjust throttle to hold glideslope.  Or, if you're flying a coupled approach, let the autopilot control the pitch for the glideslope, and you adjust the throttle for 100 KIAS. 

The plane is very happy at 100 KIAS down the ILS/LPV glideslope and it's easy to hold the needles.  If you're ready to rapidly reduce power when you break out, it's not a problem to land, although to be honest, I don't fly actual low approaches on purpose.  You can fly the glideslope slower, say 90 or even 85, but I don't like it as much due to reduced control authority, especially if it's gusty, and it leaves you banging around in the soup at a high angle of attack.  For a very low approach to a short runway, though, you might want to do that to make it easier to land.

You can fly the ILS faster, at 120 KIAS+ with the gear and flaps up, and once you break out, pop the speed brakes (if equipped), drop the gear, chop the throttle, and land, as Don Kaye likes to describe in his Bravo, but I don't often go to airports where that is required.  The plane is very versatile and and can do a wide range of speeds with practice.

With cowl flaps set for mostly closed at the top of descent, I do not have CHT problems.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Z W said:

For instrument approaches, I set power at the top of descent to 20" MP (below this is where my gear warning comes on)

Curious... I haven't flown a Bravo but 20" sounds really high for a gear warning to come on in anything. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by midlifeflyer

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

Curious... I haven't flown a Bravo but 20" sounds really high for a gear warning to come on in anything. 

it’s adjustable, mine is about 14 ish, I don’t have a Bravo either, perhaps 20 is correct for one?

[midlifeflyer]

34 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

it’s adjustable, mine is about 14 ish, I don’t have a Bravo either, perhaps 20 is correct for one?

Dunno. That's why I was asking. Your 14-ish is a pretty common ballpark. And if I recall correctly, in most Mooneys it's based on throttle position, rather than a specific manifold pressure. This, for example, is from an Ovation manual. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by midlifeflyer

[A64Pilot]

Just now, midlifeflyer said:

Dunno. That's why I was asking. Your 14-ish is pretty common. And if I recall correctly, in most Mooneys it's based on throttle position, rather than a specific manifold pressure. This, for example, is from an Ovation manual. 

I believe it’s a microswitch that is mounted on a cut out in the throttle cable. I don’t plan on touching it so long as it keeps working, rarely mine just doesn’t sound, switch sticks I assume

[Q The Engineer]

I put the gear down at mid field to slow down and go to take-off flaps at the end of runway and target 105 mph.  That takes about 20 in hg intake pressure.  Turn to base, go additional flaps and target 95 mph.  On final I go full flaps and target 85 mph.  It's worked pretty ok as I've been training.  The POH isn't prescriptive enough IMO.  

[milotron]

I get gear down warning at around 20" on my 262 also.

For a long ILS or similar approach I will drop gear at top of descent, 2500 rpm and down to 20" and it will settle in at about 110kts till I put out the flaps to takeoff position, usually at the FAF or with field in sight. Keep pulling power back to 80kts across the fence. A little faster if it is gusty or big cross wind.

50% of the time for an ILS or RNAV back into the home field ATC wants to speed up for heavy commercial behind me so I'll keep it way up and 2500/25" with gear up until FAF and hit the speedbrakes, power back to 20", drop gear at 139kts, flaps to take off at 110 and it will get to 80kts or so for a stable approach. A bit busier, but the autopilot handles all of this fine and fits in with fast traffic just fine.

My procedures only...can't say it will work for you, but there are lots of versions of this on this site.

[Q The Engineer]

1 hour ago, milotron said:

I get gear down warning at around 20" on my 262 also.

For a long ILS or similar approach I will drop gear at top of descent, 2500 rpm and down to 20" and it will settle in at about 110kts till I put out the flaps to takeoff position, usually at the FAF or with field in sight. Keep pulling power back to 80kts across the fence. A little faster if it is gusty or big cross wind.

50% of the time for an ILS or RNAV back into the home field ATC wants to speed up for heavy commercial behind me so I'll keep it way up and 2500/25" with gear up until FAF and hit the speedbrakes, power back to 20", drop gear at 139kts, flaps to take off at 110 and it will get to 80kts or so for a stable approach. A bit busier, but the autopilot handles all of this fine and fits in with fast traffic just fine.

My procedures only...can't say it will work for you, but there are lots of versions of this on this site.

Yep, that's why I kick the gear down early.  And to be honest, the gear warning horn and stall horn are so close it's hard to sort them.  That's the only thing I've found I don't like about the Mooney.  Speed brakes would be cool.  Good post, thanks for that. 

[Z W]

Our plane's gear warning was set to come on at 20" MP when we got it.  It's an adjustable sensor on the throttle but I wouldn't want it any lower.  Previous owners managed to gear up land it at least once, which you could do without ever hearing the warning if it were set to 14". 

Keeping it 20" or more until gear down also avoids the low CHT problem Geoffb was worried about.  An extended descent from 15,000 feet at 14-15" MP will give you a very cold engine by the time you get to the ground, maybe one that wouldn't make rated power on a go-around.