larryb Posted September 9, 2022 Report Posted September 9, 2022 The time has come when my TKS stall strips need re-attachment. Fortunately caught in pre-flight after reading all the stories here on MS. I have ordered the Chemseal CS3204 and it comes in an integrated mixing tube. The packaging is designed to mix all of the product at one time. It didn't come with any instructions, but I found some youtube videos on how to work the packaging. The thing is, the packaged product is about 100X what I need for the job. The working time also isn't great, at 30 min, so if we do all 4 of the strips we may run out of working time. So the question is, has anybody dis-assembled the packaging and mixed in smaller quantities? If so, any tips? https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/chemseal09-04612.php Thanks, Larry
Shadrach Posted September 9, 2022 Report Posted September 9, 2022 Don’t see why you can’t do that. I think the ratio is ~ 10:1. Why did you order B1/2? B2 is workable for 2hrs. Also, you could have bought it in separate cans and mixed as needed.
larryb Posted September 9, 2022 Author Report Posted September 9, 2022 I bought the smallest quantity in stock at the time. I didn’t realize the working time when I bought it…
carusoam Posted September 9, 2022 Report Posted September 9, 2022 It might be a good idea to speak with the TKS guy…. -a- @CAV Ice @CAV Ice Protection
N201MKTurbo Posted September 9, 2022 Report Posted September 9, 2022 Just unscrew the mixing rod before you pop it’s septum. Then push out as much of the stuff as you need. Then push the black rod into the mixer rod to push out some activator. Tape over the ends after you are done to keep it from drying out.
Fly Boomer Posted September 9, 2022 Report Posted September 9, 2022 20 hours ago, larryb said: It didn't come with any instructions, but I found some youtube videos on how to work the packaging. I haven't had much success finding help -- YouTube or otherwise. Can you remember the search terms that were successful?
larryb Posted September 10, 2022 Author Report Posted September 10, 2022 The packaging is a PPG Aerospace Injection Style Semkit. Here is the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opWni97muNw
A64Pilot Posted September 13, 2022 Report Posted September 13, 2022 On 9/9/2022 at 2:08 AM, N201MKTurbo said: Just unscrew the mixing rod before you pop it’s septum. Then push out as much of the stuff as you need. Then push the black rod into the mixer rod to push out some activator. Tape over the ends after you are done to keep it from drying out. Done it this way for years, you learn to mix by color also, the plant I worked at bought the tubes like this, there is a nice air operated dispenser they fit, there are mechanical one like caulk guns but not as precise. I now keep a pint can and it’s smaller container in the fridge. Cold extends shelf life even if not mixed. You can freeze recently mixed B2 and it won’t set up, extends shelf life I think by a month. You can even buy it frozen pre-mixed, the plant did that out of stupidity thinking they could save time, what happened was they were throwing away a lot of expired B2. https://www.ppgaerospace.com/getdoc/47d73996-f33d-45c2-a671-3879d1904d37/PRC®-Pre-mixed-and-Frozen-(PMF).aspx
carusoam Posted September 14, 2022 Report Posted September 14, 2022 Chemical reactions are highly sensitive to temperature… Often, an increase in 10°C will double the rate it takes to complete…. Similarly, a decrease in 10°C slows things down…. Of course… there can be odd transitions if the chemicals have a freezing point…. This is why there is best practices written in the user guides… If there is moisture sensitivity…. They will mention what the RH needs to be…. Sorry for the use of centigrade in the details…. They are old rules of thumb from years gone by… Do we still have rules of thumb? Best regards, -a-
N201MKTurbo Posted September 14, 2022 Report Posted September 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, carusoam said: Chemical reactions are highly sensitive to temperature… Often, an increase in 10°C will double the rate it takes to complete…. Similarly, a decrease in 10°C slows things down…. Of course… there can be odd transitions if the chemicals have a freezing point…. This is why there is best practices written in the user guides… If there is moisture sensitivity…. They will mention what the RH needs to be…. Sorry for the use of centigrade in the details…. They are old rules of thumb from years gone by… Do we still have rules of thumb? Best regards, -a- I’ve been doing metric so much, I think in metric and have to convert to English. 1
carusoam Posted September 14, 2022 Report Posted September 14, 2022 If you are measuring in microns and mils…. They are both incredibly tiny…. Best regards, -a-
Gary0747 Posted September 14, 2022 Report Posted September 14, 2022 Is the only difference between the B1/2 and the B2 having a hotter activator with the polymer the same?
A64Pilot Posted September 14, 2022 Report Posted September 14, 2022 23 minutes ago, Gary0747 said: Is the only difference between the B1/2 and the B2 having a hotter activator with the polymer the same? Good question, never though of it, but I never use the 1/2 myself and have almost never used the “A”. In the army after mixing the B2 we would thin it out with MEK or Acetone if needed, seemed to work fine. I learned to not to mix it hot with extra activator as that make it weaker after it cured
Shadrach Posted September 14, 2022 Report Posted September 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Gary0747 said: Is the only difference between the B1/2 and the B2 having a hotter activator with the polymer the same? I’m 99% sure the polymer is the same and that the two are indistinguishable after curing. Thinning with MEK is standard practice. Not really brushable unless thinned.
Gary0747 Posted September 14, 2022 Report Posted September 14, 2022 I think the MSDS lists the solvent in the factory material as containing 12% toluene. I wonder if this might be a better thinning solvent than MEK? It might not evaporate quite as fast.
Shadrach Posted September 14, 2022 Report Posted September 14, 2022 18 minutes ago, Gary0747 said: I think the MSDS lists the solvent in the factory material as containing 12% toluene. I wonder if this might be a better thinning solvent than MEK? It might not evaporate quite as fast. Depends on your goal, Xylene would evaporate even slower. No matter, MEK, Toluene and Xylene are a PITA to acquire in my state. I always work in small enough batches to have everything applied in <15 mins so MEK has been fine.
A64Pilot Posted September 15, 2022 Report Posted September 15, 2022 On 9/14/2022 at 12:23 PM, Gary0747 said: I think the MSDS lists the solvent in the factory material as containing 12% toluene. I wonder if this might be a better thinning solvent than MEK? It might not evaporate quite as fast. I’m sure we used MEK because we had it, we would spit on our finger to smooth it out, where I’m sure others would use soapy water. Learned to spit on a Phillips screwdriver bit and dip it in Comet, wouldn’t slip so easy if you did, and use a brace and bit cause you could really push with that. We would take a coffee can with MEK in it to strip paint off with our bare hands and a green pad to inspect parts too, lots of unofficial unwritten methods, some like the stripping paint probably not smart.
Shadrach Posted September 15, 2022 Report Posted September 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: I’m sure we used MEK because we had it, we would spit on our finger to smooth it out, where I’m sure others would use soapy water. Learned to spit on a Phillips screwdriver bit and dip it in Comet, wouldn’t slip so easy if you did, and use a brace and bit cause you could really push with that. We would take a coffee can with MEK in it to strip paint off with our bare hands and a green pad to inspect parts too, lots of unofficial unwritten methods, some like the stripping paint probably not smart. I’m embarrassed to say that I’ve used spit…
A64Pilot Posted September 15, 2022 Report Posted September 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, Shadrach said: I’m embarrassed to say that I’ve used spit… I still do, probably shouldn’t because you can taste the B2 on your finger and you know that’s probably not smart 1
A64Pilot Posted September 15, 2022 Report Posted September 15, 2022 Best though was when one of the other guys found a grenade in a Huey fuel cell, had to have been there for years as it was 1982. Trick was to wrap the spoon of the grenade with a bunch of electrical tape, then pull the pin and drop it in the fuel cell, the fuel would dissolve the tape and then of course boom. Except this time they forgot the pin, it still had the pin in it. 1
Fly Boomer Posted September 15, 2022 Report Posted September 15, 2022 1 hour ago, A64Pilot said: Best though was when one of the other guys found a grenade in a Huey fuel cell, had to have been there for years as it was 1982. Trick was to wrap the spoon of the grenade with a bunch of electrical tape, then pull the pin and drop it in the fuel cell, the fuel would dissolve the tape and then of course boom. Except this time they forgot the pin, it still had the pin in it. Yikes!
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