Seventeen five

[jlunseth]

Long story short, I bought an M20K 231 in May, it has been in the shop most of the time since then, and I have flown it only three or four times.  I now have it and am making up for lost time.  I came to the realization that the high cruise speeds the aircraft is capable of happen at high altitudes, so in a flight to Grand Forks yesterday, I flew 16,500 on the way up and 17,500 on the way back, which is higher than I have ever gone. 

What a great experience!  It was severe smooth.  The return flight was at night and the lit up cities and towns could be seen for probably a hundred miles ahead. 

The really cool thing was that as I was handed off from tower to departure to center, they all asked me "Mooney, confirm you intend to cruise 17,500?"  Maybe they do that even with the big jets, but I got the feeling they were wondering what a little shrimp like me was doing up with the big boys. 

Can't wait to get my instrument ticket, so I can see how high the thing will go. 

[jlunseth]

I am also a diver, certified for decompression, nitrox, 100% O2, and have dealt with "air out" emergencies and borderline hypoxia, and know that instant decisions are important.

I have been doing some research on what will be needed to go higher.  A high quality full mask of course.  I am also working with my local dive shop on a source of portable, emergency O2.  My thinking is that an O2 cleaned "Spare Air" would be just the thing.

Obviously the instrument ticket comes first, but I would be more than interested in hearing what other people do to prepare to fly safely above 18000.  And not just the regs., I know what the regs. say, I want to know what it takes to be safe.

[KSMooniac]

I consider a pulse oximeter as mandatory so you can (a) actually know your O2 saturation levels and ( maximize the duration of the O2.

[jlunseth]

I agree on the pulse oximeter.  I noticed a little bit of a dull feeling on the outbound leg when I got up to 14 or 15, so I checked and my O2 was in the low 80's.  Not sure why, but I adjusted the flow meter to pretty much full flow and that fixed it.  I check the oximeter regularly now.

The K's cruise speed picked up quite a bit at higher altitudes.  Cruising around 10,000 I see speeds in the 150's on the GPS.  Up at 17,500 both the airspeed indicator and the GPS were in the 177 range and I saw 183 for awhile.  That's 210 mph.  It was an unusual night with almost no winds aloft, so the speed was all on the part of the plane.  A person could get used to that.

ATC had me start my descent about 50 miles out. I needed it.

From diving, I know that when something goes wrong with the air supply you need to change to a different air supply right away, and not waste time trying to fix it.  So I am going to see what I can do about a small emergency O2 supply unit.    

[piperpainter]

Change tanks or ask for immediate decent!

[jlunseth]

I am fishing for suggestions.  Has anyone come up with a good, small, portable, lightweight O2 source.  Have to have back up for everything is my motto.

[jlunseth]

I did find a unit on http://www.aeromedix.com/ .  Small, two place so the co-pilot (if you have one on board) is covered, and over an hour for two people.  Not horrendously expensive either.  Sounds like the way to go.

[LFOD]

Would the systems you linked to suffice for a primary system for use in the very low teens?

[FlyDave]

Here's another one:

http://wingsandwheels.com/page35.htm

Look 1/2 way down the page for: Emergency (Bail-out) system from Aerox - it's $229

[FlyDave]

I fly my glider above the Sierra Nevada's in northen California in the summertime. We often get to 17.5 during season and I can tell you, I've been pretty whacked out when I didn't adjust my flow meter for the higher altitude. You don't know you're becoming hypoxic when it's happening to you and you can get QUITE STUPID IN A HURRY.  If you don't adjust the O2 flow when you change altitudes (we do quite frequently in gliders) hypoxia will sneak up on you. I'm planning to add a Mountain High system to my glider as well as my mooney (I have an offer in on one now..finally!!) for higher altitude flights. The last thing I want to have to think about while on a night instrument flight is adjusting the O2 flow!!

[jlunseth]

I am lucky.  My aircraft has a good autopilot so I have time to check the flow meter and many other things.  I agree, backup O2 would not be a necessity at 17500 although it would be nice to have anyway because the pilot has sufficient time to make a descent to a better altitude.  I was thinking about what I am going to need for the next step up, which is flying instrument up to FL24.  In addition to the built in system I think I am going to want a good full mask and a back up portable system readily accessible.

The built in system in the 231 is supposed to control flow automatically, depending on altitude, so in theory a flow meter is not necessary.  I got one so that I can look in my lap and see that there is actually O2 being fed through the system.  A safety check to make sure the system is operating. 

[RobertoTohme]

Quote: jlunseth

  I was thinking about what I am going to need for the next step up, which is flying instrument up to FL24.  In addition to the built in system I think I am going to want a good full mask and a back up portable system readily accessible.

The built in system in the 231 is supposed to control flow automatically, depending on altitude, so in theory a flow meter is not necessary.  I got one so that I can look in my lap and see that there is actually O2 being fed through the system.  A safety check to make sure the system is operating. 

[Precise_Flight]

Hi everyone. I am Joe with Precise Flight, Inc. We manufacture oxygen systems for OEM’s as well as portable  and STC'd fixed oxygen systems.

Some very good points have been made in this thread.  You should always carry a pulse oximeter any time you fly.  They have come down in price pretty dramatically in the past year or so. You can purchase a new Nonin brand unit for $99. Nonin Pulse Oximeters are probably the best quality you will find, and you can’t beat the new price. I have had the same one for well over 5 years and it still performs as the day I got it.

 

Oxygen saturation results are going to vary on such a large scale, that you may find you will need supplemental oxygen as low as  10k ft.  There are many things that can affect your oxygen saturation and require you to use supplemental oxygen at a much lower altitude:

·         Overall health

·         If you have a cold, or just got over one

·         If you are a smoker

·         Male or female (in most cases women will require oxygen sooner than men)

      and much more

Most of us don’t realize it, but something as insignificant as eating can have a dramatic effect.  If you have any questions about oxygen I would be happy to answer any questions.

Don’t forget to replace your cannulas every 2 years or 240 hours.

[jlunseth]

I was using your flow meter and mustache cannula during the flight.  I have the M20K which, I understand, has a valve that meters O2 flow based on altitude.  An odd thing happened on the first of my two flights, which was to 16500 (going west), and that is that my O2 went down even though the flow meter indicated a flow.  There are two sets of settings on your flow meter, one for the "oxygen saving" cannula, and the other, higher flow settings for an ordinary cannula.  I started out using the lower settings for the mustache cannula (I was wearing your mustache cannula) and my O2 levels dropped quite low.  85%.  That was true although the little ball was definitely showing a flow and I was holding the flow meter in a vertical position. 

So I used the higher settings for an ordinary cannula, and my O2 levels went up into the 90's.

Any clue what might be happening?

[Precise_Flight]

If I had to guess I would narrow it down to 2 things. 

People that tend to talk a lot will usually find that they have trouble keeping their saturation up when using a cannula. myself included.

 My other guess would be the cannula. You are equipped with an altitude compensating regulator on your fixed oxygen system. You were able to determine that it was functioning properly by way of the floating ball. You were also able to determine that you are getting enough flow out of the flow meter since the ball was floating to your setting. Even if it was leaking between the two you were still metering the proper amount of oxygen. That would leave me to believe you may need a new cannula. The moustache style Oxymizer Cannula has the two bladders in the nasal section. As you are exhaling, some of the constantly flowing oxygen will store in the bladders. Over time the bladders will start to dry out and begin to crack. You can't always see it but it happens. When it does, the oxygen will leak before you have a chance to breathe it in. If it’s not old it could still be leaking. If you purchased it recently I can look up your record, and I'll ship you a new one out if it's in the last year. Cannulas should be replaced every 2 years or 240 hours regardless of use.

 

[Precise_Flight]

I can discuss this with you via telephone tomorrow if you'd like. I can be reached at

Joe 541-382-8684

[jlunseth]

I was alone in the plane so the only talking I did was with ATC.  The cannula was purchased in July.  Maybe there was just something odd about how the cannula fit.  It was a puzzle.  Upping the flow did it though.

[Precise_Flight]

I would still guess your cannula to be suspect. PM me with your name and address and I will be happy to send you a new one at no charge.

 

[jlunseth]

Thanks.  I am pretty sure you and I talked this past June, when I bought the flowmeters and cannulas.  They have served me well and you have been most helpful.  Technically, I could use the Mooney system without a flow meter since it is self regulating.  But for a few bucks, it is sure comforting to be able to look at the little ball and see that there is actually a flow.

[231Pilot]

I've never flown with supplemental oxygen, but have looked into portable systems.  Are there significant differences between the different manufacturers systems?  If so, what are they?

[jasonwojo]

Anyone have a good source for the Scott style fittings (new or used) that work in the factory installed O2 systems of our Mooneys?  My bag of cannulas/masks has come up missing and I need to rebuild.  I appreciate any help...Jason

[Precise_Flight]

Quote: jasonwojo

Anyone have a good source for the Scott style fittings (new or used) that work in the factory installed O2 systems of our Mooneys?  My bag of cannulas/masks has come up missing and I need to rebuild.  I appreciate any help...Jason

[Precise_Flight]

Quote: 201Pilot

I've never flown with supplemental oxygen, but have looked into portable systems.  Are there significant differences between the different manufacturers systems?  If so, what are they?

All portable systems are fairly similar. The bottles are the same, and regulators are all fairly similar. The major differences will be flowmeter styles and seat back harness and carry case (if provided)

We have really nice 2 and 4 place systems. They can be viewed here https://www.preciseshop.com/proddetail.php?prod=210N0010-1_210N0020-2