crxcte Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 If you were being postioned to park by a person from the FBO and that person caused damage to your plane due to poor guideance, is the FBO responsilbe or the pilot in command? Quote
rob Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Quote: crxcte If you were being postioned to park by a person from the FBO and that person caused damage to your plane due to poor guideance, is the FBO responsilbe or the pilot in command? Quote
John Pleisse Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 No, you are PIC, end of story. But if they cause damage once you place you a/c in their care, then there is recourse. You can ask a certain FBO in Roanoke, VA if such is the case. This was for shearing the stops on my nose gear. Everytime I get out of the plane, I say to the lineman....you are aware of the turing limits on Mooneys...they answer yes. Then I ask the same question a second time, just to be sure. I saw a gentleman (Norm-The Mooneymiser? RIP -I can't remember) who had made a legal liability sign that fit on the nose gear. Quote
MooneyMitch Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 I do miss reading Norm's MAPA articles. He seemed to come up with great ideas for our Mooney's. Quote
N601RX Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Quote: JimR Norm Smith. I cut a piece of PVC pipe that is the same diameter as the tow bar with an end cap on one end and a hole in the other for a padlock and a "Do Not Tow" banner. It goes through the tube in the nose gear where the tow bar goes. Jim Quote
Bolter Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Quote: N4352H No, you are PIC, end of story. But if they cause damage once you place you a/c in their care, then their is recourse. You can ask a certain FBO in Roanoke, VA if such is the case. This was for shearing the stops on my nose gear. Everytime I get out of the plane, I say to the lineman....you are aware of the turing limits on Mooneys...they answer yes. Then I ask the same question a second time, just to be sure. I saw a gentleman (Norm-The Mooneymiser? RIP -I can't remember) who had made a legal liability sign that fit on the nose gear. Quote
John Pleisse Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Quote: JimR Norm Smith. I cut a piece of PVC pipe that is the same diameter as the tow bar with an end cap on one end and a hole in the other for a padlock and a "Do Not Tow" banner. It goes through the tube in the nose gear where the tow bar goes. Jim Quote
John Pleisse Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Quote: tomcullen I like N4352H's approach of asking the lineman twice. Even the most well meaning have trouble admitting a lack of knowledge, and will manhandle something that does not move like they expect. The linemen at my home airport make the effort to be conscientious, but good intentions only get you so far. We [the owners] got notices about an area that would be repaved, and that planes not moved in time, would be towed to another ramp area for your convenience. I assumed towed with a truck!!! There are a fair number of Mooney's at our airport, and I asked the guys if they knew about the limited turning radius on Mooney's. Neither was aware, so I gave them a tour of the nose gear on mine (I have the stops and the swing indicator). I hope that saved someone's nose gear in the future. Remember, the Mooney you save may be your own (:>) -dan Quote
MooneyMitch Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Quote: N4352H Jim and Mitch, I saw not long after he passed, his E model was on the block somewhere in Florida. Looked like it had been sitting outside for quite a while. Quote
crxcte Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Posted January 23, 2012 Quote: N4352H I like N4352H's approach of asking the lineman twice. Even the most well meaning have trouble admitting a lack of knowledge, and will manhandle something that does not move like they expect. The linemen at my home airport make the effort to be conscientious, but good intentions only get you so far. We [the owners] got notices about an area that would be repaved, and that planes not moved in time, would be towed to another ramp area for your convenience. I assumed towed with a truck!!! There are a fair number of Mooney's at our airport, and I asked the guys if they knew about the limited turning radius on Mooney's. Neither was aware, so I gave them a tour of the nose gear on mine (I have the stops and the swing indicator). I hope that saved someone's nose gear in the future. Remember, the Mooney you save may be your own (:>) -dan Quote
fantom Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Quote: Mitch Jim and Mitch, I saw not long after he passed, his E model was on the block somewhere in Florida. Looked like it had been sitting outside for quite a while. Quote
MooneyMitch Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Fantom. You were fortunate to have known Norm well. He truly appeared to be quite a character, and a very intelligent one at that. Imagine if he were on MooneySpace with us! We would all benefit from him. I love reading his articles and seeing his creations in my vintage MAPA LOG'S. Thank you Mooney Miser. Quote
DonMuncy Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Back to the original question; it depends on the state where the incident occurred. If someone negligently causes damage to your plane, he is liable. The big question, of course, is who, if anyone, was negligent. That would depend on the facts (ultimately determined by a judge or jury, if it went that far). My opinion is that if the lineman is directing you into a parking slot and you clip the wing of the next plane, you would likely have more negligence than the lineman, as you should be watching. In Texas, if your negligence is greater than his, you don't recover. However, if he is aware of a hole in the pavement that you can't see, and he directs you to run in it, he is likely going to be liable. The most practical answer probably is to submit it to your insurance company. They can pay for the repair and then they can decide whether to go after the lineman. Quote
crxcte Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Posted January 24, 2012 Thanks Don for your comments. Quote
crxcte Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Posted January 24, 2012 It has not occurred. I was just wandering the opinion of others. I was in Key West 3 weeks ago and the ramp is very tight. It would be easy to have an accident. I have always gave the lineman my full attention and I think now maybe too much. Quote
rob Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 Quote: JimR Good to hear. Don's legal advice stands. In some states, though, you get nothing at all if you are found to be even one percent at fault. In others you can recover whatever percentage the finder of fact determines the lineman to have been at fault. Google comparative vs. contributory negligence for more information. There are many nuances in these laws between the states. In many cases I would think that it would be hard to overcome the notion that we as PICs are in command of our aircraft when we are operating them. Jim Quote
John Pleisse Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 With the turning radius and longer wing on a Mooney, it isn't hard to ding a wing while turning. I have done it and I am sure it happens. I would be most careful if a lineman positions you to a turn, you focus on him for a split second and take your eye off the turing wing. There's a recipie for a ding-job. Quote
fantom Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 Quote: N4352H With the turning radius and longer wing on a Mooney, it isn't hard to ding a wing while turning. I have done it and I am sure it happens. I would be most careful if a lineman positions you to a turn, you focus on him for a split second and take your eye off the turing wing. There's a recipie for a ding-job. Quote
201er Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 A better question is how would our insurance treat this kind of incident? If the pilot tows the plane and bends the gear, I'm pretty sure it would be covered. But a lineman? Quote
rob Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 Quote: 201er A better question is how would our insurance treat this kind of incident? If the pilot tows the plane and bends the gear, I'm pretty sure it would be covered. But a lineman? Quote
John Pleisse Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 Quote: 201er A better question is how would our insurance treat this kind of incident? If the pilot tows the plane and bends the gear, I'm pretty sure it would be covered. But a lineman? Quote
danb35 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 Quote: N4352H I was hoping someone from the insurance industry would chime in, but as I understand it, all claims are settled via your own insurer. Quote
201er Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 You lock that on? But then if they end up really having to move it while you're gone what will they do? *Gasp* Pull on your prop?? Quote
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