1992 M20J Panel Upgrade / Advice

[gevertex]

6 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

I wouldn’t put the ports in the middle. Unless you want to contort yourself to avoid snagging cords every time you climb in and out of the left seat. I have mine low and to the left of where I sit to keep the cords out of my way. 

Good point.

[trevttu76]

On 1/31/2023 at 8:29 AM, gevertex said:

Interesting idea. I wonder if they could go where the suction gauge is now. 

That is where I have my USP port.  I don't have the phono plugs, so the USB and suction fit nicely next to each other.  See attached pic.

I don't typically leave anything plugged in to the port, just use it when flying long cross countries to keep things charged.  I have a separate USB charger plugged in the the cigarette lighter that stays there full time and is connected to charger cables for my iPads and cables are ziptied out of the way.  

[gevertex]

Closing in on getting this finished. Question for the group. I am looking at putting new switches in since the rockers are hard to come by / expensive. Do they need to be TSO or will anything work?

Any recommendations / links? For instance, I have seen others with toggle switches in place of the rockers.

Thanks!

 

[ArtVandelay]

No on TSO, but they have to have certain specifications: amps/voltage/etc.

[Rick Junkin]

Here's a link to Midwest Panel Builders on You Tube. I've learned a lot of practical stuff about the G3X interfaces from these guys but you need to remember they aren't limited by the STC requirements because they build experimental aircraft panels. However 95% of the info is common to both applications.

They have quite a number of videos worth watching.

Cheers,
Rick

[gevertex]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

No on TSO, but they have to have certain specifications: amps/voltage/etc.

Is there a regulatory rationale you can cite? I am being told by the avionics shop (got a call just now) that they have to be PMA and I don't see any switches that have a PMA part number on aircraft spruce. But... Maybe I am missing something? I see plenty of certified aircraft with lever or push-pull switches.

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

Is there a regulatory rationale you can cite? I am being told by the avionics shop (got a call just now) that they have to be PMA and I don't see any switches that have a PMA part number on aircraft spruce. But... Maybe I am missing something? I see plenty of certified aircraft with lever or push-pull switches.
 
 

I do not, this was covered by Mike Busch in one of his videos. Electrical components have a industry standard which they use.
Replacing certain components (switches, etc) only requires a signature in the logbook.
Maybe you need to find another avionics shop.

[rbp]

THose of you putting new USB ports in your plane. You should seriously consider putting in USB-C (not -A) ports because new devices coming out will all be USB-C

[gevertex]

18 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I do not, this was covered by Mike Busch in one of his videos. Electrical components have a industry standard which they use.
Replacing certain components (switches, etc) only requires a signature in the logbook.
Maybe you need to find another avionics shop.

Too late for that. Most of the installation is already done. I'll keep searching.

[ArtVandelay]

THose of you putting new USB ports in your plane. You should seriously consider putting in USB-C (not -A) ports because new devices coming out will all be USB-C

Or just put in 12v outlet in a more convenient location, that way you will be able to use UCB-X ports 10 years from now.

[rbp]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:44 PM, ArtVandelay said:

Or just put in 12v outlet in a more convenient location, that way you will be able to use UCB-X ports 10 years from now.

i don’t think the physical USB-C connector going to change, even as the features improve. the USB-A physical port had a number of limiting issues that aren’t present in USB-C, including more wires for additional signaling and a reversible connector 

and with the EU mandating USB-C for the iPhone (its already standard on android and on iPad), the connect will be with us a long time 

[ZuluZulu]

On 2/17/2023 at 2:44 PM, ArtVandelay said:

Or just put in 12v outlet in a more convenient location, that way you will be able to use UCB-X ports 10 years from now.

It’s a ‘92, so it should be a 24V outlet, but your point still stands. 

[gevertex]

13 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

It’s a ‘92, so it should be a 24V outlet, but your point still stands. 

Yes, it’s 24v. I plan to have both USB-C and 24v outlet for flexibility. 

[rbp]

8 hours ago, gevertex said:

Yes, it’s 24v. I plan to have both USB-C and 24v outlet for flexibility. 

if an when you find a device that has a lighter plug, you can get a uSB-C to female lighter plug 

[gevertex]

On 2/19/2023 at 5:51 PM, rbp said:

if an when you find a device that has a lighter plug, you can get a uSB-C to female lighter plug 

That would be quite the chain of cables, but you'd be able to use a 12v lighter plug devices with it.

[gevertex]

Draft panel arrangement. As some have suggested the GNX 375 may need to go below the GDU-470. Any thoughts on the autopilot panel placement?

N9127S Pilot Draft 4.pdf

[Fly Boomer]

22 hours ago, gevertex said:

That would be quite the chain of cables, but you'd be able to use a 12v lighter plug devices with it.

USB is 5v.  How do you get to 12?

[gevertex]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

USB is 5v.  How do you get to 12?

If it's true USB-C  (implements USB 3.2 spec) it supports 5-20v. Up to 20v can be negotiated with the USB-C power supply. That lighter plug adapter will have an embedded chip that negotiates 12v power. There are several manufacturers now that make USB-C cables (each cable negotiates the rated voltage for the device) that serve as power supply replacements for those devices. Using those cables you can use an array of USB-C ports instead of separate power supplies to power your devices.

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, gevertex said:

If it's true USB-C  (implements USB 3.2 spec) it supports 5-20v. Up to 20v can be negotiated with the USB-C power supply.

Did not realize that.  With that kind of flexibility, it is easy to see why there is almost universal adoption of USB-C.  Thanks!

[gevertex]

2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Did not realize that.  With that kind of flexibility, it is easy to see why there is almost universal adoption of USB-C.  Thanks!

It’s pretty handy for sure. You just have to be careful with cheaper devices as more than a few of them use the USB-C port but don’t implement the USB 3.2 spec meaning they are just dumb 5v power supplies. 
 

There is also USB4 which is also used on the USB-C connector. USB4 can apparently go up to 48v and 40Gbps of transfer rate!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4

[gevertex]

Latest panel draft. 

[mhrivnak]

Assuming that not many of your annunciator lights do anything at this point, consider replacing that whole unit with a small number of labeled indicator lights somewhere on the panel. That would also give you extra room in the center stack to use.

[201Mooniac]

12 hours ago, mhrivnak said:

Assuming that not many of your annunciator lights do anything at this point, consider replacing that whole unit with a small number of labeled indicator lights somewhere on the panel. That would also give you extra room in the center stack to use.

I second this recommendation.  I did that in my panel as the gear annunciator was the last thing left.  I replaced it with a dedicated Eaton style gear annuciator and it freed up some space.

[gevertex]

On 2/23/2023 at 1:02 PM, 201Mooniac said:

I second this recommendation.  I did that in my panel as the gear annunciator was the last thing left.  I replaced it with a dedicated Eaton style gear annuciator and it freed up some space.

I agree. This is unfortunately a problem for another day. I am at budget for this project and it’s almost complete at this stage. I have 3 or 4 light’s remaining that are useful. 

[gevertex]

Progress picture.