G3X / GTN / GTX 345 Traffic Voice Alerts

[PT20J]

Can anyone with this setup tell me what kind of traffic voice alerts you get?

According to the GTX Pilot's Guide, GTX 345 can generate traffic alert voice messages including bearing, altitude, and range such as, "Traffic! Two O'clock, Low Two Miles." 

According to the G3X Touch Pilot's Guide, the G3X only generates a traffic alert voice message, "Traffic!" with no further information. 

According to the GTN Pilot's Guide, the voice "Message content depends on the current traffic system configuration." 

Skip

[Ragsf15e]

30 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Can anyone with this setup tell me what kind of traffic voice alerts you get?

According to the GTX Pilot's Guide, GTX 345 can generate traffic alert voice messages including bearing, altitude, and range such as, "Traffic! Two O'clock, Low Two Miles." 

According to the G3X Touch Pilot's Guide, the G3X only generates a traffic alert voice message, "Traffic!" with no further information. 

According to the GTN Pilot's Guide, the voice "Message content depends on the current traffic system configuration." 

Skip

I have gns430w, GTX345 and gma340 (and G5s).  I get the “traffic, 2 o’clock low, 1 mile” type of alert, so it must be generated by the GTX345.

The alerts seem to come when the traffic is already very close.

[PT20J]

49 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I have gns430w, GTX345 and gma340 (and G5s).  I get the “traffic, 2 o’clock low, 1 mile” type of alert, so it must be generated by the GTX345.

The alerts seem to come when the traffic is already very close.

Yes, that's what I had when I had the GTX 345 and the GNS 430W because in that case the GTX audio output connects directly to the audio panel. But with the G3X and GTN, each of those has a connection to an unswitched audio input on the audio panel, but the GTX is left unconnected. So, it's not clear what to expect and I haven't been around enough traffic yet to tell.

Skip

[PeteMc]

I just get a "Traffic" alert.  No bearing, high/low, etc.

ADDED:  Sorry, meant to say I have a GTN & GTX, but don't have the G3X.

Edited December 14, 2021 by PeteMc

[PT20J]

On 12/14/2021 at 7:03 AM, PeteMc said:

I just get a "Traffic" alert.  No bearing, high/low, etc.

ADDED:  Sorry, meant to say I have a GTN & GTX, but don't have the G3X.

Thanks for the addition. I verified from someone with a G3X/ GTN 650/ GTX 345 in a C-172 that they just get "Traffic". So, it seems to be that connecting a GTX 345 to a GTN is what prevents the GTX range, bearing, altitude voice annunciation. This sort of makes sense because the GTN takes over some control of the GTX including Bluetooth. I have asked Garmin support to clarify and will report back if I hear anything useful.

Skip

[PT20J]

Update.

I confirmed with Garmin support that in a G3X Touch installation, the GTX audio is not connected and the traffic voice alerts come from the G3X which only announces "Traffic!" without bearing, range, altitude information. The support specialist agreed to send an enhancement request to engineering to have the G3X make GTX-style voice alerts. I would think this would be relatively simple since the algorithm is already designed for the GTX and the G3X has all the necessary information, but I won't hold my breath.

Skip

[mooneyflyfast]

I have GTN and GTX345 (r) and I only get “traffic”.  I would like the additional information if my equipment could be configured for it.  

I have a Garmin 795 bluetooth connected to the 345 for weather and traffic.  I have noticed traffic position is somewhat different as depicted on the 795 vs the GTN 625 with the 625 seeming to lag in comparrison to the 795. Don’t know the explanation for this.

[Mooney in Oz]

On 12/23/2021 at 10:53 AM, PT20J said:

Update.

I confirmed with Garmin support that in a G3X Touch installation, the GTX audio is not connected and the traffic voice alerts come from the G3X which only announces "Traffic!" without bearing, range, altitude information. The support specialist agreed to send an enhancement request to engineering to have the G3X make GTX-style voice alerts. I would think this would be relatively simple since the algorithm is already designed for the GTX and the G3X has all the necessary information, but I won't hold my breath.

Skip

I also confirmed with my installer that as the traffic displays on the G3X, it is the G3X STC that must be complied with, which states the requirement for the “traffic” voice annunciation to come from the G3X.

TCAS II systems in turboprops only voice annunciate “Traffic, traffic” and if the threat is within parameters, it voices the resolution advisory, which is either “climb”, “descend” or “maintain altitude” together with the display advisory until the threat is no longer a threat.  Other than that there is no position voice advice and what you see on the visual display.

Having said all that I too would much rather have the GTX345 voice advisory.

 

[PT20J]

On 12/23/2021 at 7:34 AM, mooneyflyfast said:

I have GTN and GTX345 (r) and I only get “traffic”.  I would like the additional information if my equipment could be configured for it.  

I have a Garmin 795 bluetooth connected to the 345 for weather and traffic.  I have noticed traffic position is somewhat different as depicted on the 795 vs the GTN 625 with the 625 seeming to lag in comparrison to the 795. Don’t know the explanation for this.

The problem is that Garmin’s documentation doesn’t describe how all this works. It appears that the GTX 345 sends raw TIS-B traffic information to external units (GDU, GTN, GNS, Aspen) for display, and each receiving unit does it’s own processing for display and alerting. With a GNS, the audio comes from the GTX. With a G3X, the audio comes from the GDU. With a GTN (no GDU) it comes from the GTN.

I would seem possible to connect the GTX audio output to an unswitched audio panel input and turn off traffic voice alerts in the G3X or GTN to get the same capability as a stand alone GTX 345, but that would not be in accordance with the STC.

Skip

[Unit74]

The work around is using the EFB connected with Bluetooth with ForeFlight.  You will get the full alert with bearing.   As ridiculous as that sounds, it’s what you have to do to get enough info to make a quick decision. Why Garmin chose not to push full capability is utterly unacceptable. 

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, Unit74 said:

The work around is using the EFB connected with Bluetooth with ForeFlight.  You will get the full alert with bearing.   As ridiculous as that sounds, it’s what you have to do to get enough info to make a quick decision. Why Garmin chose not to push full capability is utterly unacceptable. 

That's a thought. I already have the iPad paired with the G3X for flight plan transfers and paired with the GTX 345 for traffic and weather, so why not with the PMA450B for audio alerts?

[Ragsf15e]

There are a few other FF generates alets that might be helpful as well-entering runway comes to mind.

[Unit74]

8 hours ago, PT20J said:

That's a thought. I already have the iPad paired with the G3X for flight plan transfers and paired with the GTX 345 for traffic and weather, so why not with the PMA450B for audio alerts?

Exactly.  I believe you would want to use BT2 if not not mistaken for audio alerts on the 450B.  It might clip audio on BT1. 

[ArtVandelay]

Exactly.  I believe you would want to use BT2 if not not mistaken for audio alerts on the 450B.  It might clip audio on BT1. 

It’s the opposite, you need to connect to BT1 which is where your phone would connect to, BT2 is music only and clips the first second of audio.
I spent some time talking with Mark Scheuer about this a couple of years back. The clipping seem to only occur with Garmin Pilot, my guess is the way it handles audio (maybe closing/opening on demand).
P.S. Mark was great to work with.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

I thought it’s the opposite, you need to connect to BT1 which is where your phone would connect to, BT2 is music only and clips the first second of audio.
I spent some time talking with Mark Scheuer about this a couple of years back. The clipping seem to only occur with Garmin Pilot, my guess is the way it handles audio (maybe closing/opening on demand).

Tom, according to the manual, @Unit74 is correct.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Tom, according to the manual, [mention=18931]Unit74[/mention] is correct.

 

That’s an old version of the manual, get the latest.

[PT20J]

45 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

That’s an old version of the manual, get the latest.

Hmmm. I just had it installed in September. I checked my Pilot’s Guide and it is revision 8, Jan 2021 which is the same version currently on the PS Engineering website. What revision do you have?

[ArtVandelay]

Hmmm. I just had it installed in September. I checked my Pilot’s Guide and it is revision 8, Jan 2021 which is the same version currently on the PS Engineering website. What revision do you have?

Revision 5, it’s what popped up when I did a search, directly from PS…this is the install manual, not the pilot guide.

https://www.ps-engineering.com/assets/docs/PMA450B_IM.pdf

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

Revision 5, it’s what popped up when I did a search, directly from PS…this is the install manual, not the pilot guide.

https://www.ps-engineering.com/assets/docs/PMA450B_IM.pdf

Yep, I’ve got that one, too. Later in the Rev 5 Installation Manual, I found this:

Looks like the PS motto is “Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative” as an engineering buddy used to say.

I’ll try it both ways and see what works best.  No problem: I’m getting used to having to do that with the Garmin stuff 

Skip

[PT20J]

I emailed Mark Scheuer and he confirmed that on a PMA450B,  the phone should pair with BT1 and the iPad running ForeFlight with BT2 to avoid clipping of ForeFlight voice alerts. Of course, the pilot audio must have both BT1 and BT2 selected.

Skip

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by PT20J
Corrected PMA model number