Engine miss every 15-20 min; Surefly or FF?

[bmcconnaha]

Maybe I missed it, but was the cylinder that had the lead/oil on the plug connected to the surefly?  With the mag cap in that state, I would clean the plug and swap it to the top.  Fly it for a few hours and see how it looks.  If the bottom continues to show oil, I would borescope and do a compression test.  I also wouldn't be against doing the "poor man's compression test" and carefully pulling the prop through to feel each compression hump.  All should feel pretty close to each other.  I'm surprised you didn't have some significant RF interference from the mag cap.  

[oregon87]

On 6/21/2021 at 2:14 AM, Peter Rejto said:

Yes and no, or maybe. I have an older EI unit and I've had a devil of a time trying to retrieve the available data let alone display it. If the problem persists I may need to resort to it.

 

What EI instrument do you have installed?  Safe to assume it is a UBG-16?  If so, have you confirmed that the MUX-8A (data recorder) is also installed?  If it is, you will have a toggle switch and 1/8" female jack installed in the panel.  You will also need to dowload the DRS-1 software from our website:  https://www.iflyei.com/downloads/

 

From there, you will need a serial to USB adapter if your laptop is not equipped with a serial port.  As USB protocol is not proprietary, some adapters are compatible, others are not.  We have tested the Keyspan adapter and confirm that it works well (Keyspan USB Adapter).

 

You will need to configure the correct COM port for the adapter.  From there, you can press and hold the panel mounted switch in the DOWNLOAD position to initiate the download.  When "READY" appears on the top screen , release the switch.  The following are the installation/operating instruction for the MUX-8A:  MUX-8A Instructions

[Peter Rejto]

Oregon87, 

Many thanks for your post! 

I do have the Keyspan Serial Adapter and I have used the DRS-1 software to download data in the past. My problem is that I have never been able to properly dispay the data. It has been more than a year since my last attempt so my memory is a bit hazy around the display issue, however, when I tried to import the data into EG View I got a date and format error. Pretty sure I just gave up at that point.

Next weekend I will have access to the plane and will try again.

Thanks,

Peter

[oregon87]

Unfortunately, EG View is no longer supported.  However, the data can be graphed by Savvy Analysis or one familiar with Excel can do so similarly.  

[Peter Rejto]

Thanks for the Savvy Anaylsis website. I've enrolled!

[carusoam]

Peter,

Looks like you have all you need to make it happen!

There are a couple of steps to share your data from Savvy…. Click the share button… and post the link here…

Go for it!

Go MS!

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

17 hours ago, Peter Rejto said:

I don't disagree with any of the comments re screws. I was just reporting what has been said to me. Nonetheless, it is disconcerting to have experienced this!  I will probably remove the top cowling and check screw tightness after a few hours of flight.

In any case I've yet to diagnose the fuel flow issues that remain. I certainly have appreciated all the feedback!

Peter

That's not a bad idea. But, as I'm sure you know (but others may not), the harness including the cap is a Slick part, not a SureFly part.

[Peter Rejto]

I finally managed to download engine data from my EI UBG-16. It seems my problems have stemmed from the fact that my switch is installed upside down. I can't believe it has taken me so long to figure this out but there it is. Sadly when I upload the csv file to Savvy it throws an error with "file not recognized." 

Perhaps I didn't wait long enough for the file to process, though I waited quite a long time once the download indicated complete. On the bottom of the DRS-1 sofware it said "processing" with the blue progress bar looking complete. I waited 15-20 min more and it never changed so I closed the program. Is this the problem? Start over?

 

I've attached the csv in case anyone can tell what is going on. (warning there are some intermittent probes, though I think there has not been a problem with #4. #3 Cyl temp failed right after the annual.

Thanks,

Peter

 

EDIT: Oh, I see where I failed. I didn't know I had to map the UBG-16 before uploading. I'll get to this pretty soon and try again.

egt.csv

Edited June 26, 2021 by Peter Rejto

[carusoam]

Peter,

Congrats on getting the data! (So far)

you have 8k lines of data…. CHT and EGT for all cylinders plus a few extras data points…

Looks like they may be separated based on different flights…. Or they may all be in one flight?

I’m not sure how Savvy handles any errors that may appear in the data…

I’m not that familiar….  So let’s see if Paul is around… @kortopates

Best regards,

-a-

[Peter Rejto]

Unfortunately I'm not getting anywhere. I loaded the default settings for the UBG-16 on the Savvy site (deleting settings for cyl 5 and 6). Unfortunately the default mapping must be incorrect because while the data is accepted now nothing at all displays on the graphs. I've searched my logs and other documents for the mapping settings to no avail. Not sure what to do...

Also, looking at the raw csv file, the dates seem incorrect but are strange. The computer date was correct and data downloaded in burst mode shows today's date. But then other dates do not align with dates of actual flights.

Thanks again for any advice.

Peter

 

EDIT: I did find a single entry my mechanic made when installing the UBG-16. He indicated that EGT probes were installed on the left input channels 1-4. The mapping at Savvy talks about Series #1-50. I don't know how this relates to EI's use of the word channels. A single line of data looks like this:

06/26/2021 09:13:17,OFF,1357,0220,1058,0326,1383,0999,1338,0327,0190,0392,0085,0082,0085,0083,0085,0082,   Cyl #3 has a failed CHT probe so it appears the cyl 1-4 are displayed in order after "off" Not sure what that "off" means or how to change this into a proper mapping.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Peter Rejto

[Peter Rejto]

Savvy help answered me quickly and said the sequence and number of entries in the data stream looked quite unusual. I've supplied them with the full download and hopefully they can help me work out the correct mapping.

I flew the plane briefly today and all was normal, including fuel flows. The flight was too short to really be certain about either the engine miss and especially the fuel flow issue. I can't see how the two could be related. Intermittent problems are the worst.

Peter

 

[Peter Rejto]

Savvy kindly did graph the data but I think it is quite useless. First, the data recorder was set to 6 min intervals and the other big issue is that all my recent flights seem to be merged into one entry. The first graph is 41 hours! I can clearly see my two 4 hour trips preceded by several flights of about 1 hour. Also, the date and time stamps are off even though I confirmed that my computer time and date was correct running the DRS-1 software. 

https://apps.savvyaviation.com/my-flights/34018/7937b19a-5c62-46a0-96f5-bae2bb8a2274

It's quite obvious that I have a bad connection to both the #2 EGT and the #3 CHT.

I'm going to set the recorder to burst mode on the next flight. That will give me data every 6 seconds. The settings of recording of 1,3 or 6 min would seem hopeless to record a brief engine miss.

Peter

Edited June 27, 2021 by Peter Rejto

[carusoam]

See if @oregon87 might be coming by this way again….  (Getting closer to having real data)

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Peter,

I see all the flights organized properly… except the first few that are many hours long…

But, as you said… data points are minutes apart…

See if Oregon can give us some insight on the UBG and it’s data collection rate…

-a-

[Peter Rejto]

Update. I flew a second time again with no issues of engine miss or fuel flow issues with the Shadin as originally reported. I spoke with another mechanic and he suggested that perhaps the magneto trying to fire plug #4 (with the cap off and the plug oil fouled) created interference via a magnetic field with the wires running from the fuel flow transducer. It does appear that the plug lead runs very close to the wires from the transducer. Correct or not, the problem arose and disappeared with the Surefly cap coming off. Hopefully these issues are resolved!

Thanks again to all for the help!

Peter

 

PS Of course another problem surfaced during today's test flight. My autopilot (STEC-60-2) turns on, holds altitude but is unresponsive to heading or GPS data. I was messing around under the glare shield trying to get at the EI data recorder. I'm hoping that maybe I pulled a plug on the DG. If not, any ideas where to look? 

[mike_elliott]

On 6/22/2021 at 6:27 PM, Peter Rejto said:

Thanks for the Savvy Anaylsis website. I've enrolled!

Peter, next week when you get to the plane, see if you can grab the data again. Paul Kortopates @kortopatesat Saavy can give you a good analysis of what the heck is going on. Give my best to all and to Nik and Burnadette

[kortopates]

13 hours ago, Peter Rejto said:

Update. I flew a second time again with no issues of engine miss or fuel flow issues with the Shadin as originally reported. I spoke with another mechanic and he suggested that perhaps the magneto trying to fire plug #4 (with the cap off and the plug oil fouled) created interference via a magnetic field with the wires running from the fuel flow transducer. It does appear that the plug lead runs very close to the wires from the transducer. Correct or not, the problem arose and disappeared with the Surefly cap coming off. Hopefully these issues are resolved!

Thanks again to all for the help!

Peter

 

PS Of course another problem surfaced during today's test flight. My autopilot (STEC-60-2) turns on, holds altitude but is unresponsive to heading or GPS data. I was messing around under the glare shield trying to get at the EI data recorder. I'm hoping that maybe I pulled a plug on the DG. If not, any ideas where to look? 

The Surefly cap comng loose, losing all three screws, is easily enough to explain 100% of your issue (and much more if it the cap separated a bit more).

But I haven't seen any data or analysis requests come my way at Savvy. But I am on vacation and my colleague may have grabed one that I didn't notice; especually if it was labeled urgent.

[Peter Rejto]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your reply! I did request some help at Savvy about graphing my data and this was kindly supplied by Corey. This was the first time I have tried to use data from my EI UBG-16. I wasn't aware that it was setup to only record data every 6 minutes. This is now set to 1 minute with the option for burst mode which is around every 5 sec. I recorded yesterday's flight in burst mode but have yet to pull it to have a look. I don't think I will see anything unusual...

When the pandemic ends let me know if you want to fly my N registered Mooney in Australia!

Peter

[carusoam]

Having the monitor in bust mode collecting data every five seconds may be the preferred way to get good data…

The downside will be how quickly the memory chip fills up and starts to overwrite the older data…

It may take 100s of flight hours to use all the data capacity…

Something to keep an eye out for…

+1 for sending Mike to Australia…. 

Best regards,

-a-