Insurability and future market values?

[Hank]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

My plan as a new owner was intentionally short sighted...

The lumps I could afford to take were very small...

... there are all kinds of cases that can be financial crummy...

Select your worst case that will have you sitting on the sidelines... 

Overhaul I can probably deal with. But I've said from the beginning, my flying career likely ends with a gear up landing . . . . 

[gsxrpilot]

13 hours ago, PT20J said:

According to Vref, my M20J was worth $194,000 when it was new (in 1994 dollars) and is worth now (with probably a modest $30K in upgrades) around $154,000. 

The reason you can sell a used airplane for more than you paid for it is a result of supply and demand and perhaps not fully accounting for upgrades and inflation. 

Skip

Any airplane you buy new will depreciate. There's no reason to pay more for an airplane if I can go buy a brand new example for less. 

But generally around here our airplanes have been on the used market for many years. And so their values have fully depreciated and are now on the rebound. Your 1994 M20J is close to the top of the list of appreciating Mooneys. The 201 is the sweet spot for Mooneys as the pinnacle of efficient, NA, four place, certificated airplanes. And the late model 201's are the most refined and most desirable. So as the fleet shrinks each year, the values go up and will continue to climb baring any major economic meltdown. 

It does take significant resources and expense to maintain one of these vintage Mooneys to a high standard. And if all that is factored in, it's likely a money loosing proposition. But if we maintain the airplane from a safety/pride/usability perspective, the capital value of the airplane will certainly increase.

Anyone buying a short or mid-body Mooney today, and then maintains it properly and flies it regularly, will most certainly sell it for more than they paid for it.

[PT20J]

11 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Any airplane you buy new will depreciate. There's no reason to pay more for an airplane if I can go buy a brand new example for less. 

But generally around here our airplanes have been on the used market for many years. And so their values have fully depreciated and are now on the rebound. Your 1994 M20J is close to the top of the list of appreciating Mooneys. The 201 is the sweet spot for Mooneys as the pinnacle of efficient, NA, four place, certificated airplanes. And the late model 201's are the most refined and most desirable. So as the fleet shrinks each year, the values go up and will continue to climb baring any major economic meltdown. 

It does take significant resources and expense to maintain one of these vintage Mooneys to a high standard. And if all that is factored in, it's likely a money loosing proposition. But if we maintain the airplane from a safety/pride/usability perspective, the capital value of the airplane will certainly increase.

Anyone buying a short or mid-body Mooney today, and then maintains it properly and flies it regularly, will most certainly sell it for more than they paid for it.

Well, like most things, it is a matter of timing, which was my point. I may get back more than my purchase price, but it will all depend on when I sell it and what the economic conditions are at the time compared to when I bought it. Here's a valuation chart from Vref which is probably not accurate, but is likely representative. If I had purchased it in 2000 and sold it it 2014, I'd have taken a bath.

[MooneyMitch]

I have enjoyed flying my own airplane for many, many years.  I never once considered the resale value when I purchased.  I purchased each plane [one Cessna [C175] and 3 Mooneys [ F, R, D/C]] for the enjoyment of it all........nothing more...... no expectations other that the thrill of ownership and flying  I've been extremely fortunate to have had the privilege of personal flight all these years, and to have never taken a "bath" from such [lucky I suppose].  My philosophy has been that I will keep/own the plane until I can no longer fly, or I can no longer afford ownership.  There were times when I could not afford the ownership and did liquidate the plane. 

My current little Mooney is in a financial range [and a relatively small financial investment], that if I suffered a complete loss [total], I would not feel slighted at all.  I've had too much fun during my nearly 50 years up in the air!  My fun far outweighs a dollar consideration...............my opinion is, what the heck is the money for anyway.....a means to an end, and that end is FUN!!

With all that said, should rates continue to rise exhorbantly [a relative term], I may determine I can no longer afford to fly and will liquidate, or I may determine to self insure.  It will be what it will be.  As I've previously stated, I do sincerely hope climbing insurance rates will not make our older Mooneys unattainable for young newbie type owner wannabies.   

In the meantime, man, I've had a wonderful life of ownership/flight, and I'm currently having a GREAT time loving and flying my fun little beauty!!  

Keep on keepin' on y'all !   

[Tim Jodice]

On 3/10/2021 at 12:12 PM, MooneyMitch said:

I do sincerely hope climbing insurance rates will not make our older Mooneys unattainable for young newbie type owner wannabies. 

A young pilot with 50-100+ hours time in type will get good rates.

[MooneyMitch]

8 hours ago, Tim Jodice said:

A young pilot with 50-100+ hours time in type will get good rates.

I hope so. 

[Keith20EH]

Just FYI, my most recent quote was $1,600 for hull $65,00 value for my M20E, , based on grass, 12,000 tt, 500+Mooney, clean record, fist full of ratings, and very current. 

[MooneyMitch]

29 minutes ago, Keith20EH said:

Just FYI, my most recent quote was $1,600 for hull $65,00 value for my M20E, , based on grass, 12,000 tt, 500+Mooney, clean record, fist full of ratings, and very current. 

Appears reasonable.

[Hank]

28 minutes ago, Keith20EH said:

Just FYI, my most recent quote was $1,600 for hull $65,00 value for my M20E, , based on grass, 12,000 tt, 500+Mooney, clean record, fist full of ratings, and very current. 

That's just a little more than I paid last summer for my C, same hull value, hangared at a paved field with multiple approaches. 900+ TT, 800+ Mooney C time. Two years ago, it was ~$950.   No accidents, no incidents, no claims, nothing negative in my FAA file, only good written test scores and checkrides and a bunch of WINGS credits . . . .

Wonder what renewal will be this year????

[Keith20EH]

Update: my quote has been rescinded due to being a retractable gear aircraft based at a turf field.  Sooo I am shopping for insurance.  Never had a claim, operated off grass since 2004.  

[Culver LFA]

45 minutes ago, Keith20EH said:

Update: my quote has been rescinded due to being a retractable gear aircraft based at a turf field.  Sooo I am shopping for insurance.  Never had a claim, operated off grass since 2004.  

Oh no! Who was this with? 

I'm with Global this year flying off grass