GTN 650/750 approach

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, hubcap said:

They did that on muscle cars in the 1970’s. 

Sad note on the couple that died at the Rainbow Bridge (NY) checkpoint today.  Time will tell if it was a medical condition or not... BUT... if we're talking muscle cars, they were in a *12* Cylinder Bentley.

 

[Sue Bon]

I'm off to practice this right now. Three airports, three MAP, two diverts, one landing. Wish me luck!

[midlifeflyer]

17 hours ago, donkaye said:

It's important to note that you can't do the above before you are on a portion of the missed approach.  You have to be on the missed approach of the original airport before putting in your alternate as above

This is an important point. You have to be in the hold, not simply along the procedure..It's an unfortunate Garmin limitation (unless there's an update I haven't seen since the last time I checked)  

Edit: Looks like there was an update. @donkaye, what's the earliest point where you are seeing you can load but not activate the next approach? I just ran it on the trainer and was able to load the new approach early on the missed before reaching the MAHP. As soon as the MAHP was the active waypoint. Good update!

 

[Sue Bon]

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

This is an important point. You have to be in the hold, not simply along the procedure..It's an unfortunate Garmin limitation (unless there's an update I haven't seen since the last time I checked)  

Edit: Looks like there was an update. @donkaye, what's the earliest point where you are seeing you can load but not activate the next approach? I just ran it on the trainer and was able to load the new approach early on the missed before reaching the MAHP. As soon as the MAHP was the active waypoint. Good update!

 

I just got back. As today was the first and last nice day in many weeks, I was not the only one practicing between our three IFR airports. Poor ATC. They never even let me enter the hold of the MAP due to traffic and routed me directly to the next airport while I was on my way to the first waypoint. I just went to Procedure, loaded the airport and the approach et voila! It worked!

[Sue Bon]

And what a day to practice

 

[Sue Bon]

10 hours ago, hubcap said:

Is there an STC that will let you put an 8-ball on the throttle? That would be really cool. They did that on muscle cars in the 1970’s. 

I would totally do this 

[Marc_B]

On 1/18/2021 at 5:36 PM, Browncbr1 said:

If you’re direct to the FAF and then load the approach, just highlight the FAF that appears in the approach sequence and hit direct.

One thing that I think is important to remember.  "Direct to" vs "Activate Leg".  When speaking about approaches, I get in the habit of using Activate Leg when being vectored to the final approach course.  I'll only use Direct To for being directed to a IAF or IF from current position.  Sometimes this is subtle, but there's a big difference here.

If I'm receiving vectors to final, I'll just keep it in heading mode and in my flight plan I'll "Activate Leg" of the course that I'm being directed to (usually the leg leading to the FAF).  One gotcha though, don't arm APR until you're actually cleared for the approach because I've had ATC intentionally fly me through the final approach course for sequencing...if APR was armed then it would have turned me inbound.  So "Cleared for the approach" = arm APR (for me).

And @donkaye is right.  Loading a new approach once you're on the missed is simple, and it's the only time that Garmin allows you to have 2 approaches loaded (the one you're currently flying missed on + a new one intended to be flown).  If I'm planning on flying the published hold, then I usually wait to load more stuff until I'm in the hold and suspended to fly it indefinitely.  But you could do it at any point once you're on the missed approach (but not before).

[PT20J]

3 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

This is an important point. You have to be in the hold, not simply along the procedure..It's an unfortunate Garmin limitation (unless there's an update I haven't seen since the last time I checked)  

Edit: Looks like there was an update. @donkaye, what's the earliest point where you are seeing you can load but not activate the next approach? I just ran it on the trainer and was able to load the new approach early on the missed before reaching the MAHP. As soon as the MAHP was the active waypoint. Good update!

 

You can load a new approach anytime after the MAP. So, if you execute the missed early, you need to fly past the MAP before loading another approach.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Sue Bon said:

I just got back. As today was the first and last nice day in many weeks, I was not the only one practicing between our three IFR airports. Poor ATC. They never even let me enter the hold of the MAP due to traffic and routed me directly to the next airport while I was on my way to the first waypoint. I just went to Procedure, loaded the airport and the approach et voila! It worked!

If you went Direct to the next airport and then loaded the approach, that could always be done. As soon as you hit Direct to a new location, the approach sequence was over and you could do whatever you want. Even in a 1st Gen GNS. What this feature does is allow you to load a new approach while retaining the missed approach sequence of the old approach. The real world scenario for this feature is something likeke this

• You go missed for real.
• ATC asks, "say intentions."
• You say, "I'll go to KXXX for the RNAV 22, but would like to fly the hold for a few minutes to set it up."

Before this feature, as soon as you Loaded and Activated the new approach (no Load only choice) or went direct anywhere outside the old approach sequence, the old approach, including the missed would disappear from the flight plan. IOW, until ATC cleared you to leave the hold and continue the flight, the missed  holding pattern and your course guidance to it, would be gone. No NAV course guidance to or in the hold; no prompts when to turn; not even magenta lines or patterns for situational awareness while you switch to heading mode, figured out what the pattern would look like, determined an appropriate hold entry, and flew the hold, all in HDG mode or with no AP at all.

There were definitely ways to work around it, but not as easily. When it first appeared, I wondered whether this was one of those features Garmin picked up from user comments by those who knew about the Avidyne IFD feature (which is still more extensive).

 

 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

You can load a new approach anytime after the MAP. So, if you execute the missed early, you need to fly past the MAP before loading another approach.

Almost but not quite. It doesn't necessarily need the MAPH waypoint, but it needs a waypoint. . Results from the Garmin Trainer

1. KTTA RNAV 3. The missed is a straight ahead climb to 1300, then a climbing left turn back to the IAF for the hold. "Load" only is not available during that initial climb; it only becomes available when IKTOW becomes the active waypoint.
2. KSMO RNAV 21. The missed is a climb to 600, then a climbing right tun to CAPOB, then a right turn to SADDE. The feature becomes usable as soon as CAPOB becomes the active waypoint. 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Marc_B said:

If I'm receiving vectors to final, I'll just keep it in heading mode and in my flight plan I'll "Activate Leg" of the course that I'm being directed to (usually the leg leading to the FAF).  One gotcha though, don't arm APR until you're actually cleared for the approach because I've had ATC intentionally fly me through the final approach course for sequencing...if APR was armed then it would have turned me inbound.  So "Cleared for the approach" = arm APR (for me).

Both are my SOPs as well.

The other gotcha to arming APR before being cleared is that APR arms vertical guidance. If you get an instruction to join a segment of the approach without being cleared, that is a lateral instruction only. I've know pilots busted for that one.

[Sue Bon]

30 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

If you went Direct to the next airport and then loaded the approach, that could always be done.

I didn't do that. I think I did what we are discussing here - just without the hold. Right around the first waypoint of the MAP from the first airport, I went to Procedure and from there loaded the new approach at the new airport and then did a DCT to the IF as directed by ATC.

[midlifeflyer]

4 minutes ago, Sue Bon said:

I didn't do that. I think I did what we are discussing here - just without the hold. Right around the first waypoint of the MAP from the first airport, I went to Procedure and from there loaded the new approach at the new airport and then did a DCT to the IF as directed by ATC.

Yeah, What you did has always been doable with GPS. I was speaking specifically about the newish GTN feature of loading a new approach while still navigating on the missed for the old.

 

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

Almost but not quite. It doesn't necessarily need the MAPH waypoint, but it needs a waypoint. . Results from the Garmin Trainer

1. KTTA RNAV 3. The missed is a straight ahead climb to 1300, then a climbing left turn back to the IAF for the hold. "Load" only is not available during that initial climb; it only becomes available when IKTOW becomes the active waypoint.
2. KSMO RNAV 21. The missed is a climb to 600, then a climbing right tun to CAPOB, then a right turn to SADDE. The feature becomes usable as soon as CAPOB becomes the active waypoint. 

Interesting. I didn’t know that. Thanks!

[Marc_B]

8 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Interesting. I didn’t know that. Thanks!

Me either. But I guess that’s cause I’m not that fast to have been trying to do that right out the MAP gate!  Honestly I think even in practice I’ve usually been either 1) flying in, or at least to, the missed approach hold, or 2) on a vector from ATC, when I’m in process of loading new destination/procedure.  

[hammdo]

On my 355, I have my ‘alternate’ added after I load the approach. I place it right after the hold. When I activate the miss, stabilized going to the miss, I load the alternate approach and let ATC know I want to got my alternate with a direct to an IAF/IF of the approach at my destination. I practice this VFR with my instructor and ATC. I have this planned on the ground before I fly so I’m aware of the alternate IF/IAF fixes and approach I want to fly. I also plan for possible wind shifts just in case. I practice this also with the simulator on the ground to get the ‘buttonology’ down. 

I would bet it’s similar to the 650/750.

-Don

 

[midlifeflyer]

13 minutes ago, hammdo said:

On my 355, I have my ‘alternate’ added after I load the approach. I place it right after the hold. When I activate the miss, stabilized going to the miss, I load the alternate approach and let ATC know I want to got my alternate with a direct to an IAF/IF of the approach at my destination. I practice this VFR with my instructor and ATC. I have this planned on the ground before I fly so I’m aware of the alternate IF/IAF fixes and approach I want to fly. I also plan for possible wind shifts just in case. I practice this also with the simulator on the ground to get the ‘buttonology’ down. 

I would bet it’s similar to the 650/750.

-Don

 

At this point, it should be 

[201Steve]

22 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

f you're asking what my hand is on, that's the throttle in my airplane.  I do understand it may look quite foreign to most Mooney drivers, who are crippled with pedestrian push/pull engine controls, being not fortunate enough to enjoy the superior throttle quadrant that was installed in select, 1970s era Mooneys. 

Yes! I also have the 77J (the best J as @EricJ and I have discovered) with quadrant. Your throttle just looks huge. Is that standard of some models where the throttle is longer than the others?

[Vance Harral]

31 minutes ago, 201Steve said:

Your throttle just looks huge. Is that standard of some models where the throttle is longer than the others?

Mooney went through a couple of different handles on the throttle lever during the brief quadrant run.  There are indeed "tall" and "short" variants, mine is the former.  One of the variants has a button on top that originally controlled the landing light, but that at least one Mooney driver placarded "Machine Guns".