GFC 500

[Scott Aviation]

Hey I’m looking at pulling the trigger for a GFC 500 install in my M20J.  Has anyone got any installation pictures with roll/pitch/trim? I’ve got an stec30 now and talking to the avionics shop they will discount the installation if I assist in the process.  Thanks all. 

[donkaye]

5 hours ago, Scott Aviation said:

Hey I’m looking at pulling the trigger for a GFC 500 install in my M20J.  Has anyone got any installation pictures with roll/pitch/trim? I’ve got an stec30 now and talking to the avionics shop they will discount the installation if I assist in the process.  Thanks all. 

I have the GFC 500 in the M20M.  Everything had to come out.  I'm not sure about the M20J, but expect the same to be true.  If you want pictures, I have them , too--for the M Model.  A few other people on this list have done the J installation, so could expand on my comments.

[Emmet]

The installation is pretty similar to a KFC 200 installation. Almost everthing is bolted so not much riveting needed. Some areas are a little bit hard to reach. 

 

[201Mooniac]

I have a bunch of pictures from my M20J install.  Happy to answer any questions I can:

Edited August 29, 2019 by 201Mooniac

[EricJ]

That looks like a mess compared to my existing Century III install.   Bummer.

 

[201Mooniac]

In what way?  It's an incredibly sturdy install that while complex (this install has all 4 servos) is rather straightforward to install given the Garmin bracketry.  The wiring is also extremely simple.  The only install issue for me was I was the first 201 with a serial number below 24-1301 and Garmin hadn't realized there was a change in the wing at that point that required a modification to the roll servo bracket.  Garmin came to the shop, did the modification, and got it certified in about 2 weeks which only added a week to the completion date.  Extremely good customer service.

Edited August 30, 2019 by 201Mooniac

[donkaye]

6 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

I have a bunch of pictures from my M20J install.  Happy to answer any questions I can:

 

A much different pitch trim bracket installation than the M20M.  Do you know the reason for all the looped wire?

[bradp]

No real need for service loops back there - wonder if they made the harnesses before the servos were installed and ran the cut ends forward...  

Now you know why these things take 80 hrs to install.  

I’ve spoke with a couple of shops.  The one that tried to argue with me that mooney has cables for control surfaces really “nailed it” and will never be getting business from me.

The shop I’ll probably use if I pull the trigger is slow / methodical but is also co-staffed by a avionics tech and an AP who maintains Moonies.  You don’t want an avionics shop with techs under a repair station license messing around with these flight critical controls.  You want a good AP working hand in hand with the tech.  Keep that In consideration when obtaining quotes.   

Why didferent brackets for pitch and yaw on the aft end of the rods?

It’s actually pretty cleaver engineering.  Roll servo looks a little bit like a circus tent though. 

[ArtVandelay]

Didn’t early Js required a different bracket, I recall someone on MS saying that.


Tom

[EricJ]

19 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

In what way?  It's an incredibly sturdy install that while complex (this install has all 4 servos) is rather straightforward to install given the Garmin bracketry.  The wiring is also extremely simple.  The only install issue for me was I was the first 201 with a serial number below 24-1301 and Garmin hadn't realized there was a change in the wing at that point that required a modification to the roll servo bracket.  Garmin came to the shop, did the modification, and got it certified in about 2 weeks which only added a week to the completion date.  Extremely good customer service.

Mostly just opinion differences, obviously, but the bracketry for the century install is much simpler and includes no cables.   This is the only pic in the tail I could dig up.   The pitch servo is barely noticeable hidden behind the trim servo:

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by EricJ

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

Didn’t early Js required a different bracket, I recall someone on MS saying that.


Tom

Yes, that was me.  As I mentioned, there was a change in the wing starting at serial number 24-1301.  The roll servo bracket that was initially certified was for the later wing and Garmin had to modify the bracket and get it certified so it would work in the early serial number wings.

[Scott Aviation]

Wow, as stated quite a difference in bracketry.  I’ve got a century trim with S-Tec 30 roll and pitch and looks identical to the last pic. Looks like quite the install to retrofit to the Garmin. I got a quote of 12k plus 30 hours install to add roll pitch and trim to an early J. I thought that was pretty reasonable. What are your guys thoughts on adding the yaw damper while at it. Looks like it might be an easy addition down the road if required but at the same time if your tearing wall panels out and to run new cables it might make sense to do the 4 servos all at once and be done.  Just not sure yaw damper is required in a 201?

[ArtVandelay]

If you have passengers in the back they may appreciate the YD, otherwise I don’t thing the J needs it.


Tom

[201Mooniac]

Adding the YD afterwards is fairly easy in this installation as no wiring needs to go from the yaw servo up front, it is a continuation of the CANBUS and can be added from the pitch servo.  I did find that in moderate turbulence it is a noticeably better ride but in just slight bumps with no one in the back, it isn't so important.  It is fairly inexpensive though while you are in there so I did it anyway.

[khedrei]

30 hours? For the Garmin install?? 

I'm getting much higher numbers. My mechanic is estimating over 100 I think. Obviously I pay for the real time. I'm doing a whole panel so my quote is much higher in just guessing how much of the quote is for the auto pilot and my impression is that it's a huge chunk. 

 

What have other people paid for a 4 service install on a J or K?

[EricJ]

Took this pic today of my roll servo installation for my existing Century III autopilot.   It's a servo on a bracket with a pushrod.   I don't know why the Garmin installation is so complicated in comparison.   I was on the path to install one of these but now I think I'll wait and see whether TruTrak actually comes out with something and whether it's any better.   Otherwise the Stec apparently uses a similar installation as this, so might still be an option.

It just annoys the engineer in me to un-simplify things so badly.   Just imho.

 

[khedrei]

Yeah... you would think the cables would make for more play. The pushrod controls in a mooney is part of what makes it fly as nicely as it does. 

[ArtVandelay]

They have the arm type servos:

But no pushrod type.


Tom

[donkaye]

But the GFC 500 GSA 28 Servo looks like this.

[kris_adams]

I’m about a month out from install of mine. Doing auto trim but not YD. wondering if I should add it as well...

[201Mooniac]

The YD is not necessary on an M20J but it is nice in turbulence.  It was about a $2.5K add on for me.

[donkaye]

4 hours ago, Kris_Adams said:

I’m about a month out from install of mine. Doing auto trim but not YD. wondering if I should add it as well...

If you get it, in the long run you will be glad you did.  It's such a cheap add on that it was a no brainer for me.