Sabremech Cowling Mod Testing (Ongoing)

[Browncbr1]

9 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

Not sure who gets the better end of that deal

I’d imagine we will both come out feeling ahead

[gsxrpilot]

15 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

I guess I don't know if the doghouse was still being used when my '66 was built. I've only had it 6 years. It got the ARI mod 20 years ago but I don't know the history of the baffling though the front has never been well sealed.

We finished putting on the cowl parts today. It was too windy to go flying and it was about 5:00 but I had to taxi around the ramp for 20 minutes and take a few pics...

I'm fired up!

 

This is officially the BEST M20E in existence today. Even compared to that hangar queen on Controller asking $160K. This is the E you want if it is ever for sale.

[mike_elliott]

9 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is officially the BEST M20E in existence today. Even compared to that hangar queen on Controller asking $160K. This is the E you want if it is ever for sale.

when it is his time, Ill talk Bob into donating it to the Mooney Summit, thus he can write off all of his expenses to put it in this shape. 

Bob, make sure you have it painted first

 

[Sabremech]

1 minute ago, mike_elliott said:

when it is his time, Ill talk Bob into donating it to the Mooney Summit, thus he can write off all of his expenses to put it in this shape. 

Bob, make sure you have it painted first

 

I think it needs to come my way for further R&D.

[mike_elliott]

1 minute ago, Sabremech said:

I think it needs to come my way for further R&D.

It could be a bennie to the Presidents Club members also. There you go, Bob, here is your legacy!

[gsxrpilot]

I'm looking forward to getting a good look at it at Oshkosh.

[Bob_Belville]

Quick update for @Sabremech and interested kibitzers. The plane has been ready for test flights for a couple of days after trimming on some baffling for a better fit but the weather has not cooperated. I hope to fly tomorrow and if possible for several hours to get some speed and CHTs data as well as shoot 6 approaches. We still have to install the second landing light for symmetry which should be one more day's work before taking it to Hawk Painting.   

The cowl looks as good in person as the pictures above! I continue to be a very happy camper. May have to include some cheese head nose art. 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Bob, my ‘66 has doghouse.  No temp/cooling issues, but your new baffles and cowl look beautiful. Looking forward to hearing about your initial flights and seeing pics post paint.  You have a beautiful plane. Enjoy!

 

[RustyNance]

Following this topic closely. Curious where the price point will end up and if my BlackMac prop and spinner will work as is for this mod.

V/R

Russell Nance'

New owner of 2719W M20E

[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, RustyNance said:

Following this topic closely. Curious where the price point will end up and if my BlackMac prop and spinner will work as is for this mod.

V/R

Russell Nance'

New owner of 2719W M20E

The prop should work but the spinner will have to be changed from mounting to the flywheel to the back of the hub. I need that space to install the air filter inside the left air inlet. 

Pricing depends on items such as spinner, any previous damage to cowling, partial or full baffling, etc.

Thanks,

David

[Bob_Belville]

I'll give a report on today's test flight, the first with the GDS cowl (David, if you want us to call it something else let us know). 

It was a beautiful day here but a little windy on the ground and much rougher when I got higher than pattern altitude. I flew for only 45 minutes going up only to 7500' where I only had to hit my head on the roof once to decide it was too rough to learn anything about tas. My preliminary info is that the induction seems to be fine. I was pulling 23.1" at 7500'. CHT's were fine, I have not done a careful comparison to "before" but I think there is definitely an improvement, #2 & #4 were 310F at 75% power. #1 was 260 and # 3 was 350. It was a cool day, OAT at 7500 was -9C. After the flight I added some temporary alum. tape in front of cyl#1 which should raise #1 CHT and lower #3. Oil temps are about as previous and I'll continue to look for ways to route more air back there. I hope to fly again tomorrow. 

[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

I'll give a report on today's test flight, the first with the GDS cowl (David, if you want us to call it something else let us know). 

It was a beautiful day here but a little windy on the ground and much rougher when I got higher than pattern altitude. I flew for only 45 minutes going up only to 7500' where I only had to hit my head on the roof once to decide it was too rough to learn anything about tas. My preliminary info is that the induction seems to be fine. I was pulling 23.1" at 7500'. CHT's were fine, I have not done a careful comparison to "before" but I think there is definitely an improvement, #2 & #4 were 310F at 75% power. #1 was 260 and # 3 was 350. It was a cool day, OAT at 7500 was '9C. After the flight I added some temporary alum. tape in front of cyl#1 which should raise #1 CHT and lower #3. Oil temps are about as previous and I'll continue to look for ways to route more air back there. I hope to fly again tomorrow. 

Great to hear Bob! I look forward to your feedback. We'll have to come up with a name for it like "Sabre Cowl"! 

David

[Bob_Belville]

12 hours ago, Sabremech said:

Great to hear Bob! I look forward to your feedback. We'll have to come up with a name for it like "Sabre Cowl"! 

David

"Sabre Cowl"© it is unless you change it. I like it. 

[Sabremech]

4 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

"Sabre Cowl"© it is unless you change it. I like it. 

Sounds good for now. Just an FYI, but service bulletin 182 didn't have much effect for Matt's bird. We're going to remove the additional air dams in front of his cylinders that were installed as part of 182 and just have one on each cylinder that would have been installed with the Vans baffling. I can make you a pair of let Lynn know the sizes of them! Happy testing!! 

David

 

[Bob_Belville]

21 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

Sounds good for now. Just an FYI, but service bulletin 182 didn't have much effect for Matt's bird. We're going to remove the additional air dams in front of his cylinders that were installed as part of 182 and just have one on each cylinder that would have been installed with the Vans baffling. I can make you a pair of let Lynn know the sizes of them! Happy testing!! 

David

 

David, @Sabremech, thanks for that.

I had already decided to hold off on SB182!

1. @mike_elliott chimed in, skeptical that the extra "cowl" flap would do anything except add drag.
2. LASAR sent us the wrong kit. Apparently Mooney gave Tamara a "new" part number for the SB kit which LASAR said they had in stock. What they sent was a $250 small flapper door of some kind. So we'll return that and get a credit. I'm taking that snafu as a sign. 

I added 2"H aluminum tape on #1 cyl. based on a what's on a 201 in the shop now. I hope to fly it today.

Yes, please give us the VAN baffling dimensions and we, @AGL Aviation, can fabricate here.

Thanks! 

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

I wonder what folks who have a vintage Mooney with the LASAR oil cooler relocate mod may have done to improve air flow through the cooler fins. In my installation the cooler only partially sticks up above cyl 4. I'll estimate that 1/4 or more of the cooler is below the cylinder. This is quite different from the factory position of the J model cooler which sets back several inches behind the engine in something of a shroud.  

[Marauder]

Sounds good for now. Just an FYI, but service bulletin 182 didn't have much effect for Matt's bird. We're going to remove the additional air dams in front of his cylinders that were installed as part of 182 and just have one on each cylinder that would have been installed with the Vans baffling. I can make you a pair of let Lynn know the sizes of them! Happy testing!! 
David
 

David - what are Matt’s numbers now running? I started bencmarking with some J owners and the new norm for his F may in fact be what J owners are seeing. The days of running 330 as the hot cylinder in the summer may be gone.

My understanding of the added fixed baffling in front of the cylinders was to address part of the guppy mouth backflow issue. Removing them sounds like a good next step.

Another thing to look at is the length of the cowl flaps on our Fs as compared to the J models. I am going out to the airport today to measure a friend’s J cowl flaps and compare it to mine. They obviously may be opening much wider when opened, but may also be longer, moving the exit area when closed behind where our F cowl flaps do.

Where is a good old fashion wind tunnel when you need one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Bob_Belville]

11 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Bob, 

A lot of J owners have reported good results from cutting the height of that baffle you are talking about in front of number 1 down a bit. Also try 1” tape before cutting metal. 

Good luck. Your new cowling looks great. 

Jim

With my old (ARI) cowl 1&3 CHTs were 30+ hotter than 2&4. Yesterday's flight had great CHTs for 2&4 with #1 much cooler and 3 much hotter. (Overall was fine - e.g. 255/310/346/307.) I'm headed to the airport now hopeful that the 2" deflector will warm #1 and cool #3. Pirep to follow.

[Browncbr1]

Very interested to hear what the tape does..  I’ve always had #1 being too cool and #3 being hottest.   I honestly never knew about sb182 until now, which explains why you guys have the third fixed cowl flap.   

Edited March 10, 2018 by Browncbr1

[MyNameIsNobody]

I know the “temp” controls are a huge focus, but I would like to get some solid Power/Performance at 5500 and 7500 before and after tests to know what the speed increase is with the Sabre cowl.  My order of importance is: Faster/Cooler/Prettier.  Standing by for rating.  Right now it is: ?/?/Wowza...

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

Very interested to hear what the tape does..  I’ve always had #1 being too cool and #3 being hottest.   I honestly never knew about sb182 until now, which explains why you guys have the third fixed cowl flap.   

 

1 hour ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

I know the “temp” controls are a huge focus, but I would like to get some solid Power/Performance at 5500 and 7500 before and after tests to know what the speed increase is with the Sabre cowl.  My order of importance is: Faster/Cooler/Prettier.  Standing by for rating.  Right now it is: ?/?/Wowza...

Another short, 1 hour, test flight. The 2" tape on cyl 1 worked very well. E.g. at 65% power, LOP, 5000' Cowl flaps closed: CHTs 345/321/348/328. And @ 79% power CHTs were 351/334/365/331. (OAT much warmer than yesterday +4C at 5000'). I believe this is quite a bit lower than "before" for my E and quite acceptable. 

Oil Temp peaked at 220F in BTTW, high power climb and settled down to 200F in cruise.  This is similar to "before" and I'd like to improve but if not it too is acceptable. (50W straight oil and I took off with 5.75 qts indicated. I suppose lighter weight and more oil would lower temps a little.)

Speed... I don't think I can say much. I had alt hld on the autopilot and I'm flying on the lee side of the highest ridge of mountains east of the Rockies. Next time I'll trim level and let the altitude do its thing. But my gut is I won't see 6-8 ktas improvement. 

Short clip is while level at 5000', 65% power, LOP. (Turning the phone for wide angle in the middle of the scan did not work out very well!)

 

VID_20180310_112623405[1].mp4

[Sabremech]

15 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

 

Another short, 1 hour, test flight. The 2" tape on cyl 1 worked very well. E.g. at 65% power, LOP, 5000' Cowl flaps closed: CHTs 345/321/348/328. And @ 79% power CHTs were 351/334/365/331. (OAT much warmer than yesterday +4C at 5000'). I believe this is quite a bit lower than "before" for my E and quite acceptable. 

Oil Temp peaked at 220F in BTTW, high power climb and settled down to 200F in cruise.  This is similar to "before" and I'd like to improve but if not it too is acceptable. (50W straight oil and I took off with 5.75 qts indicated. I suppose lighter weight and more oil would lower temps a little.)

Speed... I don't think I can say much. I had alt hld on the autopilot and I'm flying on the lee side of the highest ridge of mountains east of the Rockies. Next time I'll trim level and let the altitude do its thing. But my gut is I won't see 6-8 ktas improvement. 

Short clip is while level at 5000', 65% power, LOP. (Turning the phone for wide angle in the middle of the scan did not work out very well!)

 

VID_20180310_112623405[1].mp4

Hi Bob,

Are you planning on a performance flight (6500 feet, alt 29.92, 25/2500, OAT,and at least 3 headings and noting the gps speed)?

You should see 4-6 knots increase in speed. 

David

[Bob_Belville]

13 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

Hi Bob,

Are you planning on a performance flight (6500 feet, alt 29.92, 25/2500, OAT,and at least 3 headings and noting the gps speed)?

You should see 4-6 knots increase in speed. 

David

David, with the RPM restriction on the Scimitar prop I can't run at 25/2500. (red zone is 2350-2550 if MAP >24") And w/o RAM air I do not pull 25" at 6500'.

[Browncbr1]

Bob, you had an ARI cowl before this mod, correct?  

I’ll try to put a little aluminum tape on my #1.  

 

[Sabremech]

2 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

David, with the RPM restriction on the Scimitar prop I can't run at 25/2500. (red zone is 2350-2550 if MAP >24") And w/o RAM air I do not pull 25" at 6500'.

Ah, then you’ll need to run at your most full power settings then. I should have said full throttle instead of 25”. 

David