filling the inboard fuel tanks only with the monroy LR tanks

[Yooper Rocketman]

On 12/2/2016 at 9:31 AM, peevee said:

Any tips for getting the LR tanks full? take all four caps off, fill the inner tanks, put inner caps on, fill outer tanks, a little patience, fill outer tanks again?

I haven't had a line guy yet fill my plane completely unless I supervised the filling.  I have the dumb sh*t "anti-siphon" paddles, the ones that seal off the tank if you are stupid enough to take off without the fuel cap on.   Before installing the long range tanks, I routinely ended up 8 gallons (4 per wing) short if I didn't add 4 more gallons SLOWLY after reaching the paddles with fuel (which NO LINE GUY will ever do).  The only way to completely fill that last 4 gallons is to vent the tank out the actual fuel tank vent, which means a very slow fill at the end.  

Now with the long range tanks, I fill the inboards to the paddles, fill the outboards, return to the inboards and slow fill until to the cap, then install the cap and return to the outboard again and top off.  You DON'T want to pull your inboard cap at this point, or you will port fuel over.

Regardless, if your fuel up needs to be full (long flight or cheap fuel), you are much better off fueling the plane yourself.

Tom

[fuellevel]

Carusoam is correct 

Despite the detailed investigation I have experienced at the FAA in regards to fuel quantity,  a system like the Monroy tanks would not pass the propulsion group at the Seattle ACO The criticality for each STC is not equal. 

You will get good measurement up to the point the float maxes out -  While we can measure more than a traditional resistive float  there is still a unmeasurable amount of fuel in the Monroy installation   it would be prudent and we would like to put another sensor outbd  we do three senders per tank on every Beech Baron 58 and it works very well.   

As for calibration you fuel stick on the ramp first filling one tank and then the other - you won't get anything that would provide fueling  precision.  One of the biggest adjustments that pilots new to our system make is the assumption that they were achieving accurate estimates of starting fuel.   A quality fuel indication system makes this an initially frustrating,  as the traditional pilot ground assumptions are made more evident and in contrast to what they believe.  All of these ground related issues like  ramp angle, gear set & fueling procedure working against you.  If you could magically lift a level aircraft a foot off the ground after filling it  you could actually get a good starting fuel value. 

And that is what we are trying to achieve- obtaining an inflight fuel level that you can look at at any time in level flight.

I look at the traditional component of aircraft fuel quantity planning like throwing a dart at a dart board.   

Planning, practice, stance  are all similar.   In aircraft fuel planning I can increase or decrease the size of the dartboard in allowing more fuel than I need. As for some pilots it is a dart board or a filled to the top tank, so you can't possibly miss.   We all talk about pilots that have played with a dart board that is too small or in some cases non existent.  

But I have a new tool - In the case of my dartboard analogy -  i now have a steerable dart, one that I can change the path in flight (yes I am cheating)  Thats what in-flight fuel quantity provides.   With this capability I can hit, with a greater likelihood,  any dart board provided and even a dartboard a friend decides to lean on at the last moment.  The lean on piece is equivalent to an unplanned ATC request or hold at the end of flight. 

So this is what fuel totalizers were supposed to do and what they actually accomplish in some degree,  but in my analogy an improper starting fuel level is the equivalent of not facing the dart board when you throw.   That is the reason,  that for the most part fuel totalizers have not solved fuel related accidents in aviation. 

This is also true of fuel level you can't confirm on the ground with an in aircraft instrument like the Monroy installation .  - Yes you will get that cheaters steerable dart - but after an hour or two in flight. 

I just was working on this imagery this week  - thought I'd share. 

 

 

 

[Bob - S50]

Scott,

Once we get our floats and install them, here is what I plan to do:

1.  Put the plane on jacks in a level flight attitude for calibrating the gauge.  That gives us an accurate reading when it is important, in flight.

2.  Once I'm done and have one tank full and one tank with only unusable in it, we'll put it back on the ground in our hangar.  I'll write down what the gauge says we have with one tank full and one tank empty.  I'll then move one gallon from the full tank (32 gallons) to the empty tank and write down what the gauge says for 1 and 31 gallons.  I will continue that process until both have 16 gallons.  If the gauge says they both have the same amount (or reasonably close), I'll have a conversion chart that should tell me how much fuel I really have based on a reading while sitting on the ground.  Granted it may be off a little when I'm at 1 and 31, but by the time I get to 7 and 25 it should be pretty close.  And with 25 gallons in each tank, I can fly 4 hours and 600 NM.

Bob

[Marauder]

Scott,
Once we get our floats and install them, here is what I plan to do:
1.  Put the plane on jacks in a level flight attitude for calibrating the gauge.  That gives us an accurate reading when it is important, in flight.
2.  Once I'm done and have one tank full and one tank with only unusable in it, we'll put it back on the ground in our hangar.  I'll write down what the gauge says we have with one tank full and one tank empty.  I'll then move one gallon from the full tank (32 gallons) to the empty tank and write down what the gauge says for 1 and 31 gallons.  I will continue that process until both have 16 gallons.  If the gauge says they both have the same amount (or reasonably close), I'll have a conversion chart that should tell me how much fuel I really have based on a reading while sitting on the ground.  Granted it may be off a little when I'm at 1 and 31, but by the time I get to 7 and 25 it should be pretty close.  And with 25 gallons in each tank, I can fly 4 hours and 600 NM.
Bob

3. Report back to MooneySpace the summary of my efforts.


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[ArtVandelay]

Warning slight thread shift:

if you have LR tanks, are reseal jobs more expensive since there is an extra tank bay?

 I assume no bladders if you go this route?

[Bob - S50]

19 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

3. Report back to MooneySpace the summary of my efforts.


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Wilco.

I heard from Scott last week and there are two delays.  One is the FAA.  Apparently someone else in the FAA wanted to have a say so there is a delay as to when the part for our J will be approved.  Scott indicated they told him "soon", whatever that means to the FAA.  Scott is also waiting for parts from Aerospace Logic for programming the EPROM to work with our resistance based FL202 indicator.  Hopefully not too much longer.  If my reasoning is correct, I think that will be in January when the weather is as cold as possible for us to sit outside in our T hangar while we calibrate the gauge.

[MB65E]

On December 2, 2016 at 6:01 AM, peevee said:

trying to get a grasp on how to manage fuel with the monroy tanks on the new to us plane.

 

If I fill the inboard tanks to some value, say 30 gallons, per the wing mounted fuel gauges, is that going to be a reasonably accurate indication of the fuel on board? Or will fuel travel uphill to some extent into the long range tanks?

If I fill the inboard tanks completely do they bleed over any into the long range tanks?

 

Trying to figure out how we can reliably leave the plane parked with about half tanks, but still know within reason how much fuel we have on board and wrap my head around the monroys.

Hi! What Airplane did you guys end up with?!

-Matt