ARE AIRPLANES RELATIVELY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND?

[Mooneyland]

No matter who you decide to purchase your Mooney from, the issue has come up as to whether the Mooney or airplanes in general are easy to learn and understand. Perhaps many of you more experienced Mooney owners  with some mechanical ability that all do not posess have come to understand the Mooney you own and credit should be issued here because it is always my goal to get Mooney owners to understand as much about their airplane as they possibly can; in fact I have writen much on the subject and have provided Mooney Inspections lessons as a good start guideline where virtually every system of the airplane is discussed. Reading that report would convince you that these are not "uncomlicated" machines. http://www.mooneyland.com/prepurchase_inspection.htm.

Are Mooney's really mechanically simple aircraft? Yes and no. Yes in comparrison to the modern electronic automobile; there are far less parts and systems involved. Should new owners be comforted by the fact that statements are made that they are simple to understand and a non mechanical type owner, or one with little time to learn think that it is okay to buy an airplane because it is mentioned as mechanically simple? No, and mostly "no" due to the age of the fleet; for example: A really nice 231 came into my shop for interior work having just had a thorough Dugosh annual inspection where the tubes were pronounced in great shape and there were no "corrosion issues. Not very many times are the ceiling panels removed from a Mooney. We removed that exceedingly difficult 231 ceiling panel for the interior upgrade and I discovered corrosion developing on the center roll cage post tube. Out of sight, out of mind? That center post carry's most of the weight of the engine and should that thin tube ever fail due to corrosion, he could certainly lose the engine right off the front of the bird! Here are pictures of the tubes that had started to corrode in an otherwise non corroded airplane: http://www.mooneyland.com/check_your_tubes.htm. What caused that rust to form? Condensation.

My point is that while some think that the Mooney machine is mechanically simple, there is nothing simple about ensuring that the 35-40 year old airplane you're going to put your family in is in actual "airworthy" condition as signed off and indicated by some mechanic. In all of my flying days I have come to the conclusion that the weakest link in ownership can be the mechanic. Having more than my share of emergencies in nearly 6,000 hours of flying Mooney's were mostly due to mechanical errors being caused by the mechanics. Possibly the most risky time to fly an airplane is after some work has been performed on it and much of my flying is just after mechanical work or inspections. Some of those include gear collapse on taxi due to incorrectly adjusted gear downloading and failing to discover that the inside of the gear tubes were severely corroded. That airplane was just signed off as airworthy by a Mooney service center just prior to the collapse. There are pictures of that collapsed Mooney on my website. In another instance after getting signed off by a service center annual inspection; upon delivery of the 201 to Florida, I was not able to level off the airplane at altitude due to the mechanic leaving off the trim cover chain guard between the seats and a nylon upholstery nail got caught in the chain and sprocket rendering it immovable. The ensuing nose up decent was NOT FUN! Another time I had lost an engine in an E model 2 weeks after 9-11, requested and granted a landing at Randolph AFB after which I was promptly arrested even though they said "clear to land", but that's another story. That E model had just come in from Kansas City for me to market and sell. I had sent another pilot as I had just had minor surgery and didn't want to make the long trip. Upon my moving the airplane from SAT to my airport the next day the engine had quit cold from the well known Cutter Aviation inspecting the fuel system per my request, cleaned and installed a new O ring in the injection system. The problem was that they used an automotive O ring that didn't fit well instead of the Bendix blue O ring it calls for, so he used some goop to make it fit. The goop clogged the injector nossel outlet, bent the injector needle and killed the engine. Further, I had two engine failures on rotation in two different Mooney Rockets the same day! That was due to the service center improperly setting up fuel flow in the more complicated Rocket engine, and I could go on....

Are Mooneys simple to understand machines to where maintenance issues are always caught by the mechanic or the owner who thinks he fully understands his machine? Not always. Nothing can functionally obsolete at best or cause a dangerous airframe at worst than corrosion can cause. But the tubes have been inspected and signed off as airworthy year after year! I have seen some aircraft that someone took the time to recoat the tubes with a strong epoxy and they looked good at first glance. However I have seen some coated in epoxy that were first bondo'd in areas where rust had taken its toll. Not good. Others looked good to the mechanic and yet we found serious corrosion because we know where to look and how to check it. More often than not Mooney tubes rust along a thin line of the tube where you cannot easily find it because it sits right up against the aluminum skin of the airplane where two different metals come together and touch. Most Mooneys have undergone the 208 SB's and had them signed off as such never having completely read or understood all that the part A and part B of that service instruction entails. In fact, probably over 80% of those Mooney's that have the 208's signed off, the job was done incorrectly or not thoroughly and the comfort zone of the SB entry in the log can be a false sense of security. Just because a Mooney may have the new style water resistant insulation in it does not constitute the full 208 SB's being done.

Another area often overlooked is the lateral movement of the horizontal stabilizer especially in the medium stretch bodies such as in G's, F's, J's, and K models. If there is any lateral movement, then some internal hardware requires replacement, yet how many times during preflight have you seen pilots not even knowing what to look for let alone check it; yet if a Mooney is going to have an in-flight airframe failure, it is usually the tail that goes first, but as usual; out of sight, out of mind like the ceiling's center tube. Would you buy an early 201 with the larger six cylinder mod called the Missile? What difference would the year of the 201 make? The center engine tube of the early 201 was of a lighter gage than that of the 231 which was designed for the longer and heavier 231 engine. It was not until early 80's that Mooney beefed up that center tube which carries the weight of the engine and as Charlie Dugosh once pointed out to me, that as those early 201 Missile equipped airframes begins to corrode or crack, there can be hell to pay when it fails. But what do I do if you have an early 201 with the Missile conversion? Are you SOL? No, but you should be aware of it, immediately have it inspected and eventually have a doubler tube installed. Does everyone know things like that? I doubt it, but we would go to that extent helping the new prospective buyer to know about and check that issue and many others. Simple is what you do know. Complicated is what you do not know. Are you prepared to learn all there is to know on your own? Go by some nice and helpful Mooney owner's direction on what to inspect?

Lycomings love to corrode at the cylinder bolts if they're not properly maintained. It is not uncommon to have a cylinder blow off the side of an IO-360 engine while the O-360 doesn't seem to share the possibility. Many injected Lycoming Mooneys are still flying around with the dangerous old style fuel injection servo. We just had one overhauled that had never been overhauled or updated in its life and that was a 1968 airplane! Three of my six complete engine failures have been due to the old style injector and/or poor maintenance in its past. I'm to the point where I'm affraid of the old style injector. You will know you have the old or new style (since mid 80's) by looking under the engine on the pilot's side and on the side of the servo there should be a large brass HEX-head bolt with nothing drilled in the center. The old style had a smaller black colored hex bolt that has an Allen set screw in the center. I recently located a really nice (otherwise) '68 F model with a Garmin 530 for a retired Military instructor pilot buying his first Mooney. During the pre-buy inspection; one of the things on my list I wanted the mechanic to check was for old or new style injector. It had the old style! Because it had been considered as "airworthy" by each annual mechanic and was reported as working correctly which it seemed to be, the seller refused to pay for an overhaul. I paid for it myself out of my commission because in good conscience I did not want my customer flying that airplane with the old style injector. Navajo Accessories in San Antonio did the overhaul recently and Alvin reported back that it was in very sad shape inside and had never had a single SB or AD update done to it and it was NOT airworthy.

The 201 engine uses a somewhat controvercial single "dual mag" that shares some important in common items such as the gear drive. Should that ever fail, you've lost your engine. However in fairness, that mag when properly maintained has been remarkably reliable except for one area that stands out; the mounting bolt. There is a single mounting bolt that is tightened against an aluminum block that sits between the mounting bolt and the engine case. That block is made in kind of a step shape and with time the aluminum wears against the metal that it attaches to with the bolt which is now loose and that can and has caused the mag to fall off the engine that will not only cause the mag to fail, it will ruin the engine should you get it down in one piece due to oil starvation.

Mooney landing gear systems are rarely checked for proper rigging and downloading adjustments and contain play in the shock disks with load taken off just because the rubber on the disk looks good. A simple but important shock disk compression test should be performed when the airplane is jacked up.

I have found countless times that items of importance are often overlooked by some mechanics and to Mooney's credit, you can get away with some of those sins for a time anyway, but one day the airplane can turn around and bite you in the ass.

I have flown Mooney's before that had the controls hanging up on wire harness bundles beneath the instrument panel and the owner thought that that was how the Mooney should feel as he had never had one to compare with before, and yet that bundle of wire could have caused loss of control at one point or another. Another time I found that the after market wing tip mod installed was rubbing up against the aileron. All is fine until you fly in a severe temperature variation at altitude where parts can expand and contract. How'd you like to fly an airplane with no aileron control because space tolerances between the aileron and wing tip were not observed?

So, are airplanes (Mooney in particular) to be considered uncomplicated  and easy for anyone to do some internet learning in order to help ensure his mechanic knows what he is doing? Will that mechanic be in the plane with you when something goes wrong? Doubtful. So when people like George suggest that the Mooney is so mechanically simple for anyone to know if they are getting a good airframe or not; I respectfully beg to differ with that opinion. Simply the age of the aircraft alone is enough to complicate issues that can arise in decades of use and even neglect and that is another reason to use the help of a professional that has been through hundreds of inspections on the Mooney animal. We know where to look and believe me; we look these days especially now that the airplanes are getting so up in age and we find things often over-looked by inspection suggestions to the inspection mechanics. A good mechanic will admit that he learned something about the Mooney he didn't know and we think it is part of our job in location services to help ensure he knows his stuff and looks into areas he had previously not known about. There can be no worse situation than a know-it-all who does not know it all is given the responsibility to see if a used airplane is truly airworthy.

Do not make the mistake in believing that flying one of these "uncomplicated" airplanes at 10,000' going 200 mph are so mechanically simple that they can't one day bite back, so if you're in the market for a Mooney; have a full time job, wife, kids and house and you have little mechanical ability yourself; the purchase process is best done with the help of those who are heavily experienced rather than trying to spend some extra time that few have on getting a proper mechanical education about the airplane they intend to fly to simply save some money at purchase. That is one of the biggest and often made mistakes a new Mooney owner can make. First off when you do have an airplane inspected, it is usually the responsibility of the seller to pay for airworthy items found, but If you trust any mechanic 100%; you're looking for trouble, so ask yourself if you are really qualified to set out a search for a 40 year old airplane and have some flying buddy advise you if the plane is safe or not a money pit or whatever. So whether you decide to go it on your own as suggested by another in this forum, or you use someone with serious and accurate knowledge to help you out, the fact remains that the best pilots are those who know their machine's mechanically and at Mooneyland.com we have writen many articles free of cost for you to peruse, study, and learn by, and to date; most at no cost to you. Where is all the wonderful and free information by other Mooney dealers? To me it boils down to who love Mooney's and who love money.

I have met and/or spoken to countless mechanics across the nation and I have determined that many are not really Mooney qualified, even some service centers have that problem but don't get me started on that subject. Two superb and knowledgeable Mooney mechanics I know enough to recommend are both in Texas. Dugosh in Kerrville and Boyd Maddox in Houston. Like Mooneyland, they are in it for the love of the Mooney animal more than the almighty buck. Just don't make the mistake that because an airplane has a sign-off it is a safe airplane, or on the surface it looks good. It is YOUR responsibility as an airplane operator to ensure that the airplane is actually airworthy and only deep study and time can aid in that endeavor, and those who successfully operate and fly his first, second, or even third Mooney will rarely if ever have the qualification to know what is going on accross the full Mooney spectrum unless he has been involved in the inspection of hundreds of them as some of us have, and are in constant contact with those mechanics who really know the beast. When you get involved in that many inspections, you begin to see a pattern of wear and often times in areas that unless you or your mechanic knows for certain where to look and is completely updated on it all, you may end up very disappointed.

On the upside; Mr. Al Mooney saw the importance of trying to design an "idiot proof" airplane, but I have flown them enough to know that Murphy's Law can even follow those fabulously designed and built Mooney's around.

Keep in mind that any "simple" machine can develope complicated issues and can require complicated fixes if caught, but often enough only by those who really know their stuff, and only to those who can recognize a problem before it fully developes, so even if you are a non-Mooneyland customer, we invite you to our site for one of the best free Mooney educations you can get anywhere. Take the time to learn, it will be worth the time investment, and I will try to find the time to update this list from time to time in order to help keep you properly informed.

Fly safe,

Richard Zephro

[Piloto]

They are as simple as your post.

[Cruiser]

I got a much better understanding of my Mooney when I learned to carry my checkbook with me everytime I got near the plane. :>)

[Greg_D]

Is it just me or does anyone else think this place is statrting to look like a big advertisement for Mooneyland?

[GeorgePerry]

Greg_D

You an I need to meet for a beer, because we think alot alike...Business owners with an axe to grind or an agenda to push takes away from what makes this forum such a unique and worthwhile place to share.  GOOD GRIEF CHARLIE BROWN!!...This is getting ridiculous and I feel some forum policing is necessary. 

 

[63M20C]

George Perry and Greg D, you both have hit the nailon the head.  I don't want to take away from this great site, but years ago when I joined MAPA, there discussion's were relatively more airplane specific. Now, one out of every hundred or so are worth reading.

[FlyDave]

Actually, though I don't care for someone advertising on a site like this, I do find some of Richard's posts informative. He has a lot of experience with Mooneys and make some valid points.

I called Richard a couple of months ago and asked if he had time to discuss some questions I had about Mooney's. He promptly stopped me and told me that I could either "make a donation to his web site" or use his "location services" but he wasn't interested in speaking to me otherwise. I found his tone and "sales technique" a bit too curt for my liking and decided not to persue either.

But if Richard want's to post on this forum and answer people's questions without the "donation" or "location services" then I think he has something of value to add to this web site.

 

Dave

[Greg_D]

Quote: FlyDave

 

I called Richard a couple of months ago and asked if he had time to discuss some questions I had about Mooney's. He promptly stopped me and told me that I could either "make a donation to his web site" or use his "location services" but he wasn't interested in speaking to me otherwise. I found his tone and "sales technique" a bit too curt for my liking and decided not to persue either.

[TurboExec]

Quote: Greg_D

Is it just me or does anyone else think this place is statrting to look like a big advertisement for Mooneyland?

[Seth]

I agree with Dave and others - Richard is a wealth of knowledge concerning our Mooney aircraft, however I too was turned off by his sales approach when I contacted him last year via email when asking specific questions about the Mooney purchase process and in the end did not use his services.  However, as noted, Richard does know a ton of information and his knowledge is very useful.  I have no problem with the posts on this website as long as they are in the best interests of sharing information and not retorts towards others - and that goes both ways.  There is no reason to smear Richard for his helpful information, but this is not a pure advertisement for his business either.  Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinions. 

[KSMooniac]

I agree with Seth.  I have had no contact or dealing with Zef but appreciate his background.  If he is willing to contribute here with his knowledge, then I think that is great.  He might even attract a customer or two...I'm sure there are many owners or prospective buyers that don't have either the inclination or the time to delve into the details of Mooney shopping and maintenance, but might come across this site and his own and choose to do business with him.  That is how it should work IMO. 

We don't need any poo-flinging here, though!  This forum is growing nicely and I'd hate to see the need for a moderator.

[Terry]

Now I'm afraid to ride in a Mooney let alone buy one!

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: Terry

Now I'm afraid to ride in a Mooney let alone buy one!

[Terry]

Quote: GeorgePerry

 Terry please don't believe the hype..

[Terry]

"I was always afraid of dying. Always. It was my fear that made me learn everything I could about my airplane and my emergency equipment, and kept me flying respectful of my machine and always alert in the cockpit." Chuck Yeager, Brig Gen USAF (Ret.)

[fantom]

Terry....Navy pukes are some good pilots, but most of them have no sense of humor ;-)

[Terry]

Quote: fantom

Terry....Navy pukes are some good pilots, but most of them have no sense of humor ;-)

[triple8s]

IMHO, I think there is a lot of merit to having some of the business guys on listening and chiming in on occasion, on occasion, occasionally, once in a while, however, like watching TV, too many commercials gets on the nerves, especially when they get long winded, hopefully the commercial members will not abuse their membership and ruin a good thing.

Got a decent day of weather took a ride in the, "C" model and I'll have to say I am truly privelged to fly a Mooney, makes it much easier to face monday morning when you've been flyin.

[fantom]

Among military fighter pilots, "puke" is not really a negative. After almost ten years in the Air Force, flying what was originally a Navy plane, I have a lot of respect for Naval Aviators. I was accepted by the Navy before I was accepted by the Air Force. It's just that I preferred going to the stag bar, or home, after a flight, rather than spending months on a big boat with no booze, few women, and a mind boggling, old fashioned, hierarchy.

 

[jrjaks]

There must be something about former fighter guys and Mooneys.  Here's a picture of my ride a few years before buying my first Mooney.  This picture was taken during a Combined Arms Exercise in Twentynine Palms in 1986, (you can just see the target on the ground below the nose of the F-4).  I wonder if it is technically called a Boeing F-4 now?

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: fantom

Among military fighter pilots, "puke" is not really a negative. After almost ten years in the Air Force, flying what was originally a Navy plane, I have a lot of respect for Naval Aviators. I was accepted by the Navy before I was accepted by the Air Force. It's just that I preferred going to the stag bar, or home, after a flight, rather than spending months on a big boat with no booze, few women, and a mind boggling, old fashioned, hierarchy.

[jrjaks]

As far as the usage of "puke" goes, from what I recall, it was used too for different communities within the same service, eg: "fighter-puke", "attack-puke", etc.  Not necessarily in an overly insulting manner, but more like competively.  The F-4, (as does the F-18 I suppose), allows you to claim membership in both categories.

[fantom]

Best part is our airbase can park right off the coast of where the action is. 

And...Without you air force guys we wouldn't have anyone to beat up on during BFM dets.

[Greg_D]

Quote: GeorgePerry

I enjoy the challenge of landing on a 120 ft spot on a carrier at 150 mph at night in pitching seas...its a hoot.  Best part is our airbase can park right off the coast of where the action is. 

[fantom]

Hey, nothing wrong with living well!