Want to Drive a Mooney, need some help first.

[JoeB]

Good afternoon Mooney Folk.

I am thinking of selling my 74 Piper Warrior and Joining the mooney Crowd.  I live out in Omaha and I am having a hard time actually finding a mooney to go sit in and get a feel for how it fits,  so I was hoping to pick your wealth of knowledge.

I have been weighing the options, and my obvious choice is a BRAND NEW 2010 mooney........But since that isn't even close to an option,  I started looking at the Vintage models.

I have been weighing the mooney against getting an Arrow II, and commanche 250. I really like the amount of space I have in my Warrior,  and that is somthing I don't want to loose.  With that I have been focusing my search to F/G models.  My budget is really driven off of what my Warrior sells for so I am assuming that I have in the ball park of around 50K to work with -ish. 

I have seen some C models in person before and they do look a little tight in the back seat and cargo area,  Is the F/G noticable larger?  Is it reasonable to actually put someone in the back seat with any comfort?

 

My Current mission is me 180 lbs,  my wife 130, our 2 dogs both lab/sheppard mixes at 65 and 75 lbs, a bit of luggage for us all.  We do about 350-500 NM trips. I would like the climb ability to operate out of the Front Range of Colorado our family lives in Denver and Loveland CO. Working on that IFR rating so a good set of toys in the Panel if I can find it. and from what i understand I want that legendary Manual EVERYTHING flaps and gear,  simple means easy to maintain.

Our Warrior has been upgraded to 180HP and handles this mission great, BUT she is slow,  and after our most recent trip from Omaha to Mt Rushmore,  I  am starting to think I want a few more kts in the air if i can get it.

 

My Biggest concerns about the mooney is well the Size,  I don't want to give up too much cabin comfort for speed,  from my research I understand Mooney's have a shorter roof,  but wider cabin. Any imputs on how the back seat area, baggage area is
??  How akward is the Overhead Baggage door VS the Piper lower baggage door?

has anyone else made this Piper-Mooney switch?  (JeffS , I know your out there)

How do the insurance companies feel about mooneys?  I currnetly pay 850 an year for my Warrior.

How much down time have you all seen with the added moving parts of folding gear and Prop?

 

I know it varies,  but Ave. Annual cost??

anything that I should know about while shopping that says RUN!

Thanks for all the info in advance.

 

Joe

 

if there is any F/G drivers in the Omaha area willing to let me come see let me know it would help out quite a bit.

thanks

 

[blacknchrome]

I went Piper-Piper-Mooney, and it is a wonderful step-up.  The Mooney's speed and stability are great.  The first Piper was an Archer, so essentially the same as your 180hp Warrior, but the Mooney now is a long-body Bravo, so I can't weigh in too much on your G/F search. 

I have some time in a C, and that thing really was fast and effiecient for having the same engine as the Archer so that impressed me.  The Archer cabin was more comfortable, however.  It's not a huge difference, but it is noticable.  It sounds like you are flying this airplane to get someplace, not to just go up and take a joy-ride, so I would guess you will like the Mooney much better. 

You should be able to find a C/G/maybe F in the 50 range that's fairly well equipped.  You will be in the 60-90 range for one that's decked out, and for that price you should consider a J model.

[The-sky-captain]

Joe- I learned to fly in a Cherokee 140 and had 200 hours in it when I bought my J. I now have right at 330 hours in my Mooney in the last 24 months and could not ever imagine going back. I do not notice any difference in cabin size/comfort vs the Cherokee. As far as operating out of FTG and FNL I have flown out of both right at gross weight in August and have had no problems. Good luck in the hunt.

[flyguy241]

I went from a Cherokee 140 to a Mooney 201 about 3 years ago.  Your insurance cost will go up if you transition to retracts. Insurance will be better for the Mooney than say the Comanche, Bellanca or retractable Cessna.  Probably similar insurance cost to an Arrow or Bonanza.  Operating costs are going to be higher than the Warrior namely annuals, maybe double.  I think the overhead baggage loading is better than the Piper baggage door.  Stuff doesn't fall out as you are loading.  I miss the Cherokee right around annual time, but if you want to use an airplane for travel, then a Mooney is a good choice.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: JoeB

I know it varies,  but Ave. Annual cost??

anything that I should know about while shopping that says RUN!

Thanks for all the info in advance.

Joe

[Jeff_S]

I believe I helped this poster out on the Piper forum and as he states in the original post, he knows I made this same switch just this year. Joe, send me a PM if you want to go offline and I can tell you in detail everything I've learned.

 

[Lood]

First prize would be a 201, but you won't regret it either if you can find a well kept F model with manual flaps and landing gear. I'm sure that maintenance on the latter won't be much higher than on your Piper. My F has a usefull load of 1040 lbs, so filling the tanks leaves me with a very nice 656 lbs - more than enough for my family of four plus luggage. Add to that an endurance of almost 6 hours plus reserves at 140 kts and you have a very hard to beat combination.

[rbridges]

I went from a 180 cherokee to the m20c.  I can tell a difference around shoulder level, but it's not  bad.  I did lose around 70-80 lbs of useable load in the transition, but it was worth it to me (40 knots faster).  I realize I won't be able to fly the kids as they get older, but I'll rent or borrow if I need something bigger.

[richardheitzman]

My first choice would be a M20E. If you find one with a good panel, strong engine and all the speed mods (sloped windshield, flap gap seals, etc) you can get a little screamer for a good price. 1966 or 1967 are great years for that. Flat panel for the instrument panel, johnson bar and hydrolic flaps  and your annual expense will be minimal. I think one time I computed around $65-$85 an hour operating cost for a M20J and M20E that included insurance, fuel, debt, hanger, etc and I wanted to fly about 150 a year. You can pull the back seats as you use that area for dogs and bang you have TON of baggage and dog space. M20J has longer legs, more room. You can get long range tanks in the M20E that takes you up to 82 gallons useable. That is just toooo much for the bladder.

[clipperskipper]

There's actually a 20E. a 20F, and a 20J for sale in Omaha,  most sellers will let you fly an A/C for the fuel.

[JoeB]

Clipper, I have been browsing around, I can't find the Mooneys you are talking about for sale here in Omaha, I was hoping you could point me in the right direction,

 

thanks

 

 

Joe

[clipperskipper]

Mooney in Omaha: http://www.chooseyouritem.com/used-airplanes-and-aircraft-for-sale.html

[flyboy0681]

One of the oldest misconceptions in general aviation is the interior size of a Mooney. The M20J is actually wider than an Arrow.

The M20J is 43.5" wide versus the Arrow's 41.0, although the cabin height of the Mooney is lower at  44.5" versus 45.

 

I think that Mooney has a reputation for tightness because of three things.

 

1. The Mooney has a full length center pedestal while the Arrow doesn't have any.

2. It appears that the bottom seat cushions are wider on the Mooney than Arrow which makes the two seats pretty much touch each other, giving the impression that there's no room between the two passengers. Getting my hand on the trim wheel takes some maneuvering on the Mooney yet it's in the same spot on the Arrow and I find it easier to grasp.

3.  The Mooney sits lower to the ground than the Arrow and I think it gives the illusion of being smaller.

 

The Mooney has two great attributes that the Arrow doesn't: the door opens much wider and it cruises at 155kts.

[rob]

The Mooney has more than two advantages over the Arrow. The ones you mention are great, but the general construction of a Mooney is, in my opinion, far superior to the Piper.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: rob

The Mooney has more than two advantages over the Arrow. The ones you mention are great, but the general construction of a Mooney is, in my opinion, far superior to the Piper.

[DaV8or]

Quote: flyboy0681

I think that Mooney has a reputation for tightness because of three things.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: DaV8or

 

[Comatose]

The footwells in a Mooney are much tighter side to side. That's the first thing that limits my comfort on a long trip. I'm 6'3. Otherwise cabin comfort is just about a wash.

The overhead baggage door in the mooney is MUCH better than a cherokee's baggage slot, even if mine doesn't stay up. You can actually load more than one bag.

If you need back seats get an F. Simple as that.

It sits a lot lower to the ground, of course, so if you're the sort of guy that prefers driving a big SUV, well, don't park next to any Bonanzas.

[scottfromiowa]

Hey Comatose.  I replaced my baggage hinge for about $20 bucks...Best $ I ever spent :<)

[DaV8or]

Quote: Comatose

The footwells in a Mooney are much tighter side to side. That's the first thing that limits my comfort on a long trip.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: DaV8or

Agree with this too. Much more foot room in a Piper. It's not like your feet rub on anything, it's just there aren't a lot of options where to put your feet on a long flight like Comatose said. I haven't found it a problem, but then I haven't gone on any long trips yet.

[flight2000]

Hey Joe,

Haven't heard anything in awhile, are you still looking?

Brian