EDM 830 install question

[larryb]

Thanks M,  that helps a lot!  one thing I like about having my factory cluster and my edm 800, is that if one goes, no problem. But I could for sure use the panel space from eliminating redundant factory instruments. Im wondering if i kept just enough factory instruments to fly in case the 900 fails. (Im thinking RPM, MP, TIT, and a few others) or do you even need backup engine instruments if you have a 900? Which backup instruments did you (or anyone else who has a 900) keep when you installed your 900?

With my 900 install, the only factory gauge I kept was EGT. I kept it because it's built into my scan for "Target EGT climb."  It's quicker to glance at the old EGT and adjust my mixture than to look at the 900.

Larry

[wishboneash]

I only kept the RPM gauge with the 900 install. Everything else was removed. I wanted an analog gauge to sense the rpm fluctuations which is easier to see on an analog gauge than a digital one.

[Marauder]

I only kept the RPM gauge with the 900 install. Everything else was removed. I wanted an analog gauge to sense the rpm fluctuations which is easier to see on an analog gauge than a digital one.

I replaced my right hand side gauges with electronic versions a year before the JPI install. Both are considered primary.

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[JohnB]

Thanks guys.. Ok you've convinced me.. I need a 900, gracias!

[wishboneash]

 

 

I replaced my right hand side gauges with electronic versions a year before the JPI install. Both are considered primary.

I see you have modified your display to show the fuel level as a bar graph. I have to try that. For me, as a redundant instrument, what I would like is an attitude indicator of some sort. I am running out of panel space where it matters!

Off topic, I was curious as to what people are seeing for peak EGT on their Js. I know peak EGT doesn't mean too much, but off the top of my head mine runs up as high as 1550-1600F at 65-70% power at 8000 ft. So I can go to 50 to 70F LOP getting 145kts KTAS at about 9gph. I am concerned about burnt exhaust valves as I have had various people tell me I am running too hot and the heat dissipation is not that great for our Lyc engines (especially if the valves are not perfectly aligned) resulting in exhaust gas leakage past the seats. I have had to deal with cylinder issues at every annual.

[Marauder]

I see you have modified your display to show the fuel level as a bar graph. I have to try that. For me, as a redundant instrument, what I would like is an attitude indicator of some sort. I am running out of panel space where it matters!

Off topic, I was curious as to what people are seeing for peak EGT on their Js. I know peak EGT doesn't mean too much, but off the top of my head mine runs up as high as 1550-1600F at 65-70% power at 8000 ft. So I can go to 50 to 70F LOP getting 145kts KTAS at about 9gph. I am concerned about burnt exhaust valves as I have had various people tell me I am running too hot and the heat dissipation is not that great for our Lyc engines (especially if the valves are not perfectly aligned) resulting in exhaust gas leakage past the seats. I have had to deal with cylinder issues at every annual.

The change to the bar graph was actually done by JPI when I sent the unit back for a fluctuating manifold pressure problem, they changed the whole display including the color. I like it better.

As for the exhaust gas temperature, the placement of the probes is really critical. Only an inch or so can change the temperature significantly.

[ArtVandelay]

, I was curious as to what people are seeing for peak EGT on their Js. I know peak EGT doesn't mean too much, but off the top of my head mine runs up as high as 1550-1600F at 65-70% power at 8000 ft. So I can go to 50 to 70F LOP getting 145kts KTAS at about 9gph. I am concerned about burnt exhaust valves as I have had various people tell me I am running too hot and the heat dissipation is not that great for our Lyc engines (especially if the valves are not perfectly aligned) resulting in exhaust gas leakage past the seats. I have had to deal with cylinder issues at every annual.

I would not worry about absolute EGT temps, but the 9 gph is little too high for 8000,50F LOP, 145 TAS. What RPM are you at? By comparison (2300 rpm):

[Marauder]

Not so fast ... Johnny B Goode ... Unless you are up for a total panel redo ... ?  (We did that and still the 830 made sense for us) ... If you need panel space, yes the 900/930 may be the way to go? If not, the 830 may suit your needs very well? My pictures have all the fancy bars and colors too! (And no fat girls in my plane!) 

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Just to add a little more color commentary to the discussion. Here are three pictures of my JPI evolution. The first is the 830:

The second is the 900 with the old color scheme:

The third is of the 900 with the new color scheme (it's purdy):

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[N601RX]

Another point to consider, there is about 6lbs weight difference between the factory gauges + 830  and removing them and installing a 900.

Edited October 28, 2015 by N601RX

[Marauder]

... especially if you have some "hefty cargo" to carry! I can see why SOME PEOPLE might to go to the EDM-900 since they need to carry the  EXTRA WEIGHT! It all makes sense now! (Insert smiley faces - it won't let me do it since the new site ... ) 

Hey! I resemble those comments! Don't make me get Peter Garmin after you!

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[Marauder]

(No Chris ... Not Peter GARMIN .... Noooooo! Actually, we recently added some GARMIN products, a GNS-430W, and FlightStream 210. We're really enjoying the capabilities, especially doing LPV approaches ... Kudos to GARMIN for working with Foreflight. The flight plan sharing works well between the panel and iPad Mini or vice versa!) 

Chris, Your panel is very nice, I'd want to show it off too. We just converted our panel from the old "shotgun pattern" to a "standard T" and I even want to show it off! And you have an F, which sometimes I wish for now, after having a short body a couple years ... 

Back on topic, 830 or 900, I find the larger color screen of the 830 WAY WAY more user-friendly than the old monochromatic orange screens on our EDM-700 and FS-450. Well worth the money IMO ... 

I did move up to the 830 from an old GEM 602, so I get the dramatic jump from the mono to full color. I posted those pictures so people could see the differences between the 830 and 900 (including the changes they made to the format and colors).

As for posting panel pictures, I think of them as full service messages. I think it benefits people to see what can be done and I have answered a number of questions over the pros and cons of what I did. I think Bob B, Oscar and others are doing the same thing. I think seeing what they did led people like yourself & Dev to make the investment.

I am really interested in ongoing PIREPs on the FlightStream product. I'm holding out hope that the GDL-88 will be open sourced for interfacing with the Aspens. Once that happens, I'm on the FlighStream wagon.

I think Dev had one installed and would be curious to see one work in person.

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[Aerodon]

Im at that decision point. I have an EDM 800 with all of the available probes working fine, and one factory instrument that's getting a little bonky. So.. I want to upgrade to either an 830 or a 900. Since i have all of the probes for the 800, the 830 I imagine would be no brainer, but the 900 replacing my factory ones might take a while. So for anyone who has done all three (upgrade a 700/800 to an 830 then getting a 900), would you recommend just skipping the 830 and going for the 900? How long did you wait until you made the jump from 830 to 900?

 

 

 

John

I've done an FS450 and EDM700 to an EDM730 in 4 hours.  It involved re-pinning the FF wires into the EDM700 harness, then plugging the existing 3 harnesses into the 730.  But no panel alterations were required and no new transducers installed.  At the right opportunity we will install the MP, RPM sensor and Oil P to turn it into an 830.  Note that the 830 harness comes with a 20Ga power and ground vs. the 22Ga in the EDM700.  It also has a choke on the power / ground and no data cable.  Other than that, the harnesses and probes are the same.

EDM900's are a different story and I've seen the debate about whether you can 'upgrade' or whether you have to replace everything.  My opinion is that if the EDM700 was properly installed and the wires and probes are in good condition - use them.  Go through the parts list carefully, and if the old / new part number matches, then re-use.  If not, replace.  Or use the opportunity to start again and recoup some of your costs by selling the old units as a system.

You have a relatively newer plane, I would be tempted to keep the OEM gauges and install an 830.  Will keep your costs down and reduce rearranging the panel.  If I had an older plane, the 900 is a great opportunity to get rid of unreliable tachs, etc. and free up some panel space.

Don

(And full disclosure, I sell JPI's but I am not biased between and of their models)

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Aerodon
typo

[JohnB]

Wow, all useful tips! Thanks guys! Say does anyone have an OEM oil temp gauge that they want to sell or know where to get one?  If I went the way of the 830, which is clearly an easier and cheaper install since my 800 works flawlessly, I'd need to fix my OEM which is starting to go bonky. This was one of the other reasons I was thinking of upgrading to 900 as ive found these gauges are hard to get replaced. Or is this not the case? Aerodon? Thanks for sharing Maurauder, Like your experience of having gone from a 700/800 to an 830 then a 900, as I know how I am, if I really like the 830, I might just want to do the 900.. Now if I could just find an installer that will install a 900 without having bought it through them, I would probably go the 900 route, grr another snag. Decisions decisions. But fun ones!

 

 

 

 

[wishboneash]

I would not worry about absolute EGT temps, but the 9 gph is little too high for 8000,50F LOP, 145 TAS. What RPM are you at? By comparison (2300 rpm):

 

Let me try to download some representative and provide exact numbers. I usually fly at 2500 rpm. Thanks.

[JohnB]

I am definitely going to do the 900 route. Just found out from LASAR quoting the OEM gauges, are about $800-$1,000 each when they fail and can be hard to find.  the probes and senders for these range from $250 to $4600 each!! So to get out of that race, Im skipping the 830 step. And I like getting that extra 6lbs useful load potential.

So im going 900 new install, taking out most of my factory gauges and probes. Maybe I'll keep my upgraded 800 as a backup to my primary gauges as I have now, although I'm sure I won't need it after I get used to my 900. If anyone needs any factory gauges or OEM probes to these units, pm me as mine will be coming out soon. Thanks everyone!

[N601RX]

Wow, all useful tips! Thanks guys! Say does anyone have an OEM oil temp gauge that they want to sell or know where to get one?  If I went the way of the 830, which is clearly an easier and cheaper install since my 800 works flawlessly, I'd need to fix my OEM which is starting to go bonky. This was one of the other reasons I was thinking of upgrading to 900 as ive found these gauges are hard to get replaced. Or is this not the case? Aerodon? Thanks for sharing Maurauder, Like your experience of having gone from a 700/800 to an 830 then a 900, as I know how I am, if I really like the 830, I might just want to do the 900.. Now if I could just find an installer that will install a 900 without having bought it through them, I would probably go the 900 route, grr another snag. Decisions decisions. But fun ones!

 

 

 

 

Shop around for the installer. These are not rocket since to install.  The wiring harness is mostly complete, well labeled and only requires crimping the sensor end terminals.  The install manual does a good job of covering each sensor and it's mostly a process of connecting red wire to red wire and yellow to yellow.  It don't require an avionics shop if you have an IA who I will take the time to refer to the manual.  I did both my 830 and 900 under my IA's supervision and everything worked correctly.  I know a few others who have done th same.

[Marauder]

Shop around for the installer. These are not rocket since to install.  The wiring harness is mostly complete, well labeled and only requires crimping the sensor end terminals.  The install manual does a good job of covering each sensor and it's mostly a process of connecting red wire to red wire and yellow to yellow.  It don't require an avionics shop if you have an IA who I will take the time to refer to the manual.  I did both my 830 and 900 under my IA's supervision and everything worked correctly.  I know a few others who have done th same.

My mechanic installed mine.

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[JohnB]

On 10/28/2015, 8:48:50, daver328 said:

Not so fast ... Johnny B Goode ... Unless you are up for a total panel redo ... ?  (We did that and still the 830 made sense for us) ... If you need panel space, yes the 900/930 may be the way to go? If not, the 830 may suit your needs very well? My pictures have all the fancy bars and colors too! (And no fat girls in my plane!) 

Hey Dave, you were so right. Ok back to square zero as there's not enough room in my M to place a JPI EDM 900 or even 830 taking out the factory instruments. I was hoping that it would be like this one from the JPI website, but apparently this picture on JPIs website is not from an M model, so my 900 wont fit between the instrument cluster and the trim indicator. Grrr. The only way it would fit without a panel is to put the 900 in portrait mode, which to me doesn't look as good. Anyone with a Bravo who put one in without a total panel redo?  (I wanted to save my panel redo for the big upgrade) Or anyone have theirs installed in portrait mode and happy? Thanks guys.. always useful tips here.

[JohnB]

1 hour ago, daver328 said:

 

Have you looked at the EI CGR -30 P? 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/eicgr30p10-05345.php

May be a better fit? 

I hear you.. all of this for wanting to install one instrument! I hadn't looked at the CGR30, that would fit, but not enough parameters always displayed for me, I would choose the 900 in portrait over that one . Their 50-P does, but the same size issues as the EDM 900. I'm going to call JPI next week to see what kind of Mooney that is in their website picture and how they made it fit where I would like mine placed, otherwise I may have to a) do a panel upgrade now, then another one later, or b ) deal with a 900 in portrait mode, or c) do all of my big upgrades now and be broke for a while.. 

[carusoam]

John,

That panel looks a lot like my O1 with some changes...

There is an add-on sheet of aluminum (patch) that has the JPI and an AOA mounted in it.

The ADF has been removed and blanked over as are the original small RPM and MP gauges at the bottom.

Looks like the GTN and JPI may have been installed concurrently with the AOA.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[JohnB]

15 minutes ago, carusoam said:

John,

That panel looks a lot like my O1 with some changes...

There is an add-on sheet of aluminum (patch) that has the JPI and an AOA mounted in it.

The ADF has been removed and blanked over as are the original small RPM and MP gauges at the bottom.

Looks like the GTN and JPI may have been installed concurrently with the AOA.

Best regards,

-a-

 

Exactly what I want to do, as i wouldn't mind a patch if it came out looking close to the website picture. And my panel also looks a lot like this one. So far installers think it can't be done in my model without a new panel, but im still hoping!

[N601RX]

It's easy to rotate a 900 from vertical to horizontal. It's just matter if loosening 1 screw and re tighten it after rotating it. Then push a couple of buttons to tell it to rotate the text.

You could tell the installer to install it vertical for now but to be sure to route the wires in a manner and leave enough slack it could later be rotated and moved to its final place when you redo the panel.

 

 

[JohnB]

6 hours ago, N601RX said:

It's easy to rotate a 900 from vertical to horizontal. It's just matter if loosening 1 screw and re tighten it after rotating it. Then push a couple of buttons to tell it to rotate the text.

You could tell the installer to install it vertical for now but to be sure to route the wires in a manner and leave enough slack it could later be rotated and moved to its final place when you redo the panel.

That's a great suggestion for an interim solution thanks! And if the portrait mode really bothers me, I suppose I could always just push those buttons and turn my head sideways to read it.  :) Gracias!

[JohnB]

Ok after researching this full circle, and reading all the posts here, I'm going to upgrade my 800 to an 830 and NOT do the 900 install at this time because:

1. A jpi edm 900 will not fit landscape in my panel without a major panel re do and would probably end up in portrait mode when all is done.
2. In portrait mode you only get to display 5-6 linear gauges on the 830'and 900, and you can display up to 8 on the edm 830 in landscape mode.
3. With a 900, you don't get to choose the 5 gauges that are displayed, whereas with an 830, you can display whatever you want on your choice of 8 linear gauges.
4. An 830 will fit near where my 800 is in landscape mode, with my choice of linear gauges to always display.
5. The cost difference and hassle factor to upgrading to a 900 is much greater (including panel redo, 900 install time, moving other instruments, no trade in through jpi of 800) vs doing an 800 to 830 swap (almost plug and play install, upgrade path exists) will allow me to save more coin for more upgrades and not keep the plane down as long.

There you have it. Thanks again for all of the input!

John

 

[carusoam]

Nice collection of thoughts, John.

These are the important ones that are hard to find on the JPI website.

Thanks for sharing your research!

Best regards,

-a-