usafhaynes1 Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I've posted a few topics on here as a new Mooney owner in 2013. Unfortunately, I had a couple of failures; of nose gears to be precise. The circumstances behind both incidents was definitely strange and some believed not coincidental but rather must have been some sort of error on my part. I had two separate planes (M20C), bought in separate states with different mechanics performing the annuals and both had the same issue; the nose gear collapsed during taxi for takeoff. The first one was investigated by the FAA and revealed that the nose gear had broken in three places causing failure. I'd only had my first airplane for a total of 14 hours. My second plane had flown for 89 hours and had only 3 hours just after a very expensive annual when the nose gear collapsed. The mechanic who performed the annual stated he had load tested the gear but couldn't remember the "tolerances" nor had any paperwork to back his claim up. The investigator inspected the nose gear and said it was "shattered". I have my suspicions that the gear was never actually load tested. I was pretty much done with Mooney aircraft and was looking for a Piper. After borrowing a friends to fly around, it simply didn't have the speeds I was accustomed. I started researching nose gear collapses on Mooney's more thoroughly and found it was a more common occurrence than most would admit and the worst part was most of the time it was the front nose gear. I felt that if I were to get another Mooney, the nose gear must be replaced immediately. I found a Mooney in February and flew the Piper up to get a good look at the airplane. After meeting with the owner, I immediately went to look at the nose gear and found the truss to be in worse shape than any of my other planes. The damage to the truss was so bad, I refused to even take the plane for a flight (I'd seen his pilot fly the aircraft for about 10 minutes as I arrived). I agreed to purchase the plane if the owner would give it a fresh annual, fresh IFR and replace the nose gear. This all worked out well in my favor. The original nose gear was sent off for "refurbishment" and came back unserviceable. They had to order a new truss from LASAR (love that compnay!). Turns out, the damage wasn't just the truss as the damage went through the linkage which had to be replaced. Other issues in the place included a loose servo (missed all the bolts to hold it on), and several instruments were unserviceable as well. This plane had a current annual which means the mechanic either didn't look at the truss or just assumed all was well; both a serious safety issue. And no, the damage was not recent. It took a total of 10 weeks to repair all the issues before I finally received my plane last Friday. I"m still waiting on a replacement ILS as the original was sent off and came back unserviceable. They are shipping me the new one. I need to get back into IFR flying!!! My "new" 1965 Mooney M20C flies straight and true and the STEC 50 works great. On the downside, it has an Apollo 2001 NMS that hasn't been updated since 2004 and needs a battery, the comm has some slight feedback (not a huge issue) but the prop is balanced, the instruments are accurate (the vertical compass card is bouncing around 10-15 degrees at a time...a bit frustrating) and I'm very happy with the engine's performance. My first cross country round trip was 4.1 hours and no oil used. I appreciate most of the support I've received from the community on this forum, and want to pass along to ensure your nose gear is indeed intact and has no bending or dents in the truss...it eventually will fail. I was fortunate that mine only failed during a slow taxi, not during an actual landing. Enjoy the photo the mechanic sent me showing the new truss versus the damaged one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Welcome back Mr. Haynes. Wow! That's a measurable dent. Please share your source of nose wheel failures... I have seen: * Dented trusses... Poor tugging experiences * Gear up landings... Failure to use a check list * Heavy porpoising... Failure to go around after a bounced landing * Falling into a giant pot hole... Failure to maintain the taxi surface But, I have not seen a failed nose wheel truss. I gave mine a solid review yesterday. Try to actively avoid this list on the new plane, OK? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks Col Haynes I went to the airport and checked my nose truss again this morning . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Anthony - isn't there some sort of "backlash" measurement that needs to be correct on the nose gear? Have heard of this causing at least one nose gear failure. Do you recall any more details on this or am I making this up? Sent using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Hi USAFHaynes, Do you have any photos from the 2 unfortunate nose gear incidents showing where the breaks occured that you would share. I'd like to understand exactly where the breaks happened so I can look at mine closely in those suspect areas. Thank you, David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usafhaynes1 Posted May 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I do not have any photos handy that shows the actual truss failure from the previous planes. All I had is the information provided by the mechanics who inspected the planes. Both nose gear trusses failed (yeah...odds of that right?) and both were attributed to the dents from improper towing. The dents caused the initial failure and the rest of the truss broke on collapse. I read up that mooney recommends repair for a very low tolerance of a dent. Both my planes did have slight dents which I was told shouldn't be an issue. My buddy's m20c has the same damage and I've pleaded with him to replace the truss ASAP! I will regularly inspect the truss and advised the ground crew at my home base Fbo of the limitations of Turning the mooney. Otherwise, today is a $100 seafood run in Biloxi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Ok. I have a better understanding now with your description being the dents from over towing. I thought the failures may be further up in the nose gear structure in the wheel well area. Thanks much, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 The "dent" specifications is pretty tight if I recall. Something like 1/32". Sent using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinerunner Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks for this post. I've known that we should be careful to always land on the mains and also watch out who you let tow due to more limited nose gear travel than other planes (I try to always just pull it by hand). You've given me a better idea what and to look for and where to look for that insidious damage. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Chris, I don't recall a backlash measurement...? The limit on dents is similar to the thickness of paint. But.... The O gets a couple of updates to the nose gear structure. It has two bolts (adjustable stops) and matching tabs to keep the tubes from crashing together. And an indicator for the limits of towing. The tow bar also has a lock hole. Park the plane with the tow bar locked in position. Surprised it didn't get a sleeve of some form. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Sorry to hear of your bad luck. A question I would have for your maintainer, do you have current maintenance manuals? If not why not? As the owner of a shop we spend a lot of money on keeping current manuals, calibrated tools etc. just one of the differences. You can choose a specialist or a "Walk-in clinic" for you maintenance. Neither is cheap in their own unique way. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Well this was something of a freakout. My plane is going into annual and I will be sure and mention that I want "extra attention" paid to the nose gear! Would you mind telling us what the cost was to completely repair the gear? TIA Harley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usafhaynes1 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 1. I'm not a Colonel. I pin on Major next month. 2. I do not know the actual cost of repairing the gear. I only know that the mechanic replaced the nose truss (LASAR) and the linkage to the truss (again, LASAR). Sorry about vague answer, but the owner paid the bill for all the repairs, I just bought the plane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usafhaynes1 Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 I'm all about sharing my experiences in hopes that people don't suffer the same issues I have. Right now I've another post on a radio problem....never stops right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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