Things that make you go, "Hmmmmmmm?"

[Mooneymite]

No data plate?

 

 

CONTINENTAL IO-550-G MOONEY • $12,000 • AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE SALE • Continental IO-550-G w/ No prop strike. Your chance to get a smoking deal on a 310 HP engine for a fraction of the price. Engine is being offered up complete w/ all accessories in pictures, even the A/C compressor is included. Not included is the Data Plate & Log books. Times Unknown. Have a photo copy of the data plate which is included. Engine rated at 280 HP @ 2500 RPM but has STC SE02930AT for 310HP. Offer world wide shipping, lower 48 states is a flat $350. Pics upon request. Removed after hanger next door caught fire, has some soot deposits as seen in pictures. Please ask any ?'s • ContactReed Jarman - USED AIR PARTS - AZ AIR SALVAGE, LLC, Owner - located Gilbert, AZ USA • Telephone: 480-440-0080 . • Posted March 10

[Cruiser]

how would you get it signed off as airworthy if you installed on your plane? 

How much of a value hit would a no logbook engine be to the resale price?

[KSMooniac]

I think to get it signed off as airworthy it would need at least the equivalent of a prop strike inspection, but that is just my educated guess.  The case halves could be inspected to determine how many times it has been overhauled, and from there get a guess of the total time.  If it can be traced back to the N-number, then that would also help.  

 

Regulation-wise, I'm not sure knowing TT is required, so if it passes inspection then there should be no issue.

 

If I had an IO-550 Mooney and was nearing overhaul time, I'd be tempted to get it and then have a good boutique shop go through it, then sell my core and swap when the time comes.

[Awful_Charlie]

Makes me suspicious too - is the photo of the data plate from the same engine as the one being offered? I'd be looking like a hawk at the serial number on the case to see if that had been tampered with, and want to make sure the s#s matched with the photo and the STC paperwork. No log book, unknown hours, could be a piece of junk

 

If an offer seems too good to be true.....

[kortopates]

Looks entirely legit to me and much more common that you may realize. I think many of you may be confusing the EXPERIMENTAL market with the certificated world. The experimental guys eat this stuff up. But it's not cost effective for the certificated world to try bring this fire damaged engine back into certificated airworthy status. For example, in addition to the dimensional and cracking inspections, all heat tempered materials would have to have their hardness verified through Rockwell hardness test and/or eddy current test. So probably no real core value at all in the certificated world. But to the experimental guy, the engine looks like it has seen minimal fire damage and thus would make a good core for rebuild. However, heat damage may not even be visible. I am sure we'll never see this "engine" on a certificated airframe again, but it's actually very possible that parts from it could be recycled - it happens.

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[KSMooniac]

Ad says the fire was next door, so I'm not sure it would've gotten hot enough to damage the engine or alter any heat treat.  I would want to see what it looks like after being cleaned...see if it got browned at all, or just had soot and ash land on it.  

[MB65E]

There was a long body Mooney here at SMO that was in a hangar fire when that CJ departed the runway last fall and took out a row of hangars. It was a hot fire, it was in the hangar next to the burnt up CJ. I'd stay away. The Fire bowed every piece of sheet metal in the hangar the mooney was in. It's Still that way, it's the hangar on the far north west end that faces the runway.

-Matt

[Cruiser]

Looks entirely legit to me and much more common that you may realize. I think many of you may be confusing the EXPERIMENTAL market with the certificated world. The experimental guys eat this stuff up. But it's not cost effective for the certificated world to try bring this fire damaged engine back into certificated airworthy status. For example, in addition to the dimensional and cracking inspections, all heat tempered materials would have to have their hardness verified through Rockwell hardness test and/or eddy current test. So probably no real core value at all in the certificated world. But to the experimental guy, the engine looks like it has seen minimal fire damage and thus would make a good core for rebuild. However, heat damage may not even be visible. I am sure we'll never see this "engine" on a certificated airframe again, but it's actually very possible that parts from it could be recycled - it happens.

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Maybe this is the reason the FAA made him pull the data plate?

[jetdriven]

I think to get it signed off as airworthy it would need at least the equivalent of a prop strike inspection, but that is just my educated guess.  The case halves could be inspected to determine how many times it has been overhauled, and from there get a guess of the total time.  If it can be traced back to the N-number, then that would also help.  

 

Regulation-wise, I'm not sure knowing TT is required, so if it passes inspection then there should be no issue.

 

If I had an IO-550 Mooney and was nearing overhaul time, I'd be tempted to get it and then have a good boutique shop go through it, then sell my core and swap when the time comes.

I'd think you'd also have to prove compliance of any applicable AD's, even if it went into an experimental. The unknowns from the possible heat damage are a serious concern. If the thing was condemned due to that, might be the reason for the data plate removal.

 

It'd sure look nice on an airboat.

[N601RX]

It was likely either the owner or insurance company who removed the tag. The engine has a lot of mass, the fire would have to have last a pretty long time to affect it. I'm sure there are picture of the plane somewhere.  You should be able to tell a lot by the fiberglass cowl, hoses and paint how hot things got in the engine area.

 

From the pictures you can see that the hoses, and belts still look like new. You can read the PN off the belt.  It didn't get that hot.

 

There is no requirements for an experimental plane to comply with any AD's.

[triple8s]

I know a fellow who bought some parts off of that plane and I was curious as to:

1. why the data plate would be removed
2. why couldnt the engine logs be proof of the history and compliance of the engine
3. aside from heat damage of course......why wouldnt the engine be suitable for use on another certified aircraft if the history and compliance be proven

      I can definately understand why heat damage is of concern especially in airframe structures but it should be very easy to acertain if an engine has had

       sufficient heat to cause damage. It seems to me at EVERY turn in the name of safety, parts and services are held as expensive as possible, hurdles and

       hoops are as high and difficult as possible whether safety is improved or not just for the sakes of their existance. I am of the opinion that safety could be

       MUCH improved by better primary flight training and weather awarness. I know lots of pilots who have never had one single aerobatic lesson, never been

       in a spin ever, look at the accidents seems to me the big killers are, VFR into IMC, take-off over weight with high wind, ICE, the list goes on and on. Stupid

       decisions do more killing than an engine case missing a piece of paper.

[triple8s]

BTW thats the engine I was speaking of for one of the M20L's if not for the hurdles and hoops that engine and a prop would be a fine fwf for one of those birds. The engine mount would have to be looked at but I doubt it had gotten hot enough to be hurt either, but I guess it really doesnt matter because as someone on here has said, " If but's and If's were nuts we'd have food for life."

[jwilkins]

The baffles, V Belt, and hoses, etc. don't look heat damaged at all. If those are original, as they appear to be in the photos, the probability of any heat damage to the engine itself is extremely low. The Insurance Co likely required the data plate to be removed to avoid possible liability with subsequent owners. The log books are not included, but you could probably find someone who worked on this or maybe the previous owner to get information about the engine.

 

If I needed an engine for an experimental I'd be down there tomorrow with my checkbook to look & talk. 

[cliffy]

Here's some info from info from Continental

 

Replacement engine data plates may be obtained from Teledyne Continental Motors by following the

procedure provide below.

1. Request for replacement data plates must be made in writing.

2. Contact your local FAA office and obtain written approval from them as specified in 14

CFR 45.13 paragraph ( and (d).

3. If the engine data plate has been lost or stolen, or if the removed data plate is being

retained by the FAA, you must obtain written certification from the FAA on official FAA

letterhead verifying the engine model and serial number for which the data plate is being

requested.

4. The old, removed data plate, unless it is being retained by the FAA as noted in step 3

above, must be returned to TCM with your written request for a replacement data plate

and the above documentation.

5. Enclose a check or money order made payable to Teledyne Continental Motors, in US

funds, in the amount of $100.00.

 

Here's the link    http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SIL00-9A.pdf