What's the closest you've come to landing gear up?

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I'm lucky to say I've never even come close, and it would be almost impossible to land gear-up in the Acclaim because the power setting to slow to approach speed with the gear up is so low, the gear warning alert goes crazy. Plus, I'm pretty anal about checking the gear 2 or 3 times after I've lowered it.

[Seth]

One time I came close but not really.

It was my second orientation flight in my my first. Mooney, my former new to me 1967 F model with Johnson bar. I had reduced power on downwind when the instructor pulled the power for an engine out in the pattern. I used flaps properly, managed my energy, and on short final to my horror went through GUMPS realizing I had not put the gear down. So I used the Johnson bar and immediately realized I retracted the gear, as I had already deployed it prior to the fake engine out. In another fluid motion I redeployed it and we landed just fine.

I had 4 hours in the Mooney at that point. In retrospect, the instructor should have called for a go around. He's an experienced guy, but after reading all this, what if the Johnson bar on maybe my 10th throw wasn't locked in place properly? Anyway, that's the closest I've been. My routine is GUMPS in downwind, GUMPS in base, green light over the fence on final. If straight in, 3 and 1 mile GUMPS with Green light over the fence.

I'm going to add the extra passenger check going forward as an additional safety feature to assist with distractions. Good idea.

-Seth

[Marauder]

I'm a pretty big stickler for the sterile cockpit rule when I am on an approach or flying a pattern. Distraction is the root cause of many gear up landings and eliminating the chatter box who wants to know what that building is. And like Joe, I have OCD about the BUMPS checks.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Marauder, your comment about being OCD is funny to me because my wife is OCD. Yet when we're approaching to land she always says, "Why do you keep looking at the floor?" As we all know, that's where the gear down indicator is.

[Hank]

I use gear down to start my descent, whether IFR or VFR. I like the thump as they go down, verify green light then, recheck green light on base, and on final touch the switch and check the floor indicator.

When I was getting the WAAS upgrade the month after completing my insurance dual, with barely 100 hours in my logbook, I caught it up rolling out on final, but with half the interior removed to access coax that needed to be replaced along with the antenna, the buzzer was removed. I'm a firm believer in Check Three Times.

[Jsavage3]

I haven't yet, but there are those who have and those who will...

 

I do GUMPs on downwind and again on final...religiously.  I have my wife (best co-pilot in the world) verify it with me too...when she's aboard, which she usually is.  Bottomline, if ANYTHING is non-routine, that's the time to recognize things aren't routine and double & triple check that your tires are in the wind.  One cannot check that too many times!

[pinerunner]

This issue is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a Johnson bar and was specificly looking for an older Mooney that still had one. If the light doesn't come on I can check that the bar's in gear-up position and check the little locking button. Its so different from the flaps that flipping the wrong switch is hard to imagine (but never say never; there nothing so stupid that someone hasn't done it.)

 

Forgeting the gear is hard since they come down before the flaps. Gear down is the first thing I do to slow it up in the pattern. With gear extension maxed at 120 and flap extention at 100 its hard to do it any other way.

 

With electric gear I'd be less secure in all they.

[midlifeflyer]

I haven't yet, but there are those who have and those who will...

 

 

...and those who won't.

[John Pleisse]

You can always pick out a military or ex-military pilot......."N1234 base final, full stop, gear down". Ironically, I had a military tower tell me to waive off while flaring with the gear up. I was asked to land, come to the tower and hand write a letter of gratitude. Apparently, it was the controller's 5th save in a month (2 were pricey biz jets) and he was up for a commendation. The officers in the tower neither bought nor were amused by my landing gear circuit breaker story.

[Hank]

Doesn't that make for an unnecessarily inefficient descent, Hank? Why not on downwind or when you intercept the glide slope, or if you must, some other arbitrary point a bit closer to the airport?

 

Oops, I wasn't clear. I descend power on from cruise to the airport environment and then:

• when VFR, abeam my intended landing point, gear down starts my descent to the runway. I am already at Takeoff Flaps by this point. [flaps = 125mph; gear = 120 mph]
• when IFR without glideslope, gear down at FAF starts my descent for the runway.
• when IFR with glideslope, gear down 1½ dots high starts my descent for the runway.

With the topic of forgetting the gear, I supposed [inaccurately] that the airport environment was understood. I will increase my future efforts to be both clear and precise.

[kellym]

Can't recall coming close unintentionally. Probably because I had main gear failure on a Cardinal RG while working on my commercial.

Spent an hour trying to get the gear down, and finally realized might succeed pulling gear down with the plane's tow bar that was onboad.

Successful landing and inspection verifyed broken rod end on main gear actuator.

That experience led me to select a manual gear Mooney. I also instituted a minimum of 3 gear checks in the pattern as my routine. Downwind, base and most importantly at 1/2 mile final, grab and yank the gear handle.

Also aware because my aircraft still has a few subtle scars from one gear up 9 years before I bought it...only one in the plane's 6000+ hours.

Not to mention primary flight instructor started me with GUMPS checks in the old C150 in 1973...with the old gear down and welded response.

None of that is fool proof, which is why I put my hand on Johnson bar at first power reduction and keep it there until the gear is down and locked.

Multiple schemes to serve as multiple memory aids are about all you can do to defend against the possibility.

Kelly

[Jsavage3]

Jsavage3, on 30 Sept 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

I haven't yet, but there are those who have and those who will...

 

...and those who won't.

 

Gear-up landings can happen to anyone, no matter one's background or professionalism.  IMHO, it is the one who feels it "can't happen to me" who will likely be the next victim of a gear-up landing.

[larryb]

In another thread I asked about gear warning systems. I was quite surprised at the responses. The majority were along the lines of "I check several times and won't forget." Few folks acknowledged the possibility that they too might get distracted someday and forget.

 

So I ask again, and especially for those who have had a gear-up, or almost have: What sort of gear warning system would have saved you? Why did the factory throttle-based system fail to warn you?

 

My theory is that the factory throttle-based system warns the pilot too late. In the flare, you are already expecting the stall warning beeps and can mistake the gear warning for the expected stall. If we had a system that warned the pilot several hundred feet in the air, we would have plenty of time to fix the problem.

 

Larry

[201er]

My theory is that the factory throttle-based system warns the pilot too late. In the flare, you are already expecting the stall warning beeps and can mistake the gear warning for the expected stall. If we had a system that warned the pilot several hundred feet in the air, we would have plenty of time to fix the problem.

Larry, I don't think this is true (but don't have the experience to prove it). You see even with the gear down I have to pull throttle to idle on mid to short final with any hope of actually coming down to the airport. Without the gear down, I'd imagine you'd be forced to go idle to avoid overshooting the airport even sooner. So I don't think the issue is that the warning is too late. If anything it's that the overwhelmed/shocked pilot has tunnel vision and cannot see/hear things going on and tunes out the warning.

 

What's interesting about this poll is that checklists seem to be the least effective measure at preventing gear ups. When a pilot is in a situation to forget to put the gear down, he's even more so in a situation to forget to do the checklist! So a gear warning or a buddy do seem to be the more likely saviors. What is scary is that 10% have had a gear up and that 45% have at some point forgotten to put the gear down but something helped them eventually remember. Odds definitely stacked against you in the long term.

[jetdriven]

Full flaps with the gear up will have enough drag the pilot may not detect it until its too late.  For that reason, the gear comes down before the flaps move.  Unless on an ILS, then its half flaps until glideslope intercept.  But thats just me, and I did learn that on a Beech message board.

[larryb]

Larry, I don't think this is true (but don't have the experience to prove it). You see even with the gear down I have to pull throttle to idle on mid to short final with any hope of actually coming down to the airport. Without the gear down, I'd imagine you'd be forced to go idle to avoid overshooting the airport even sooner. So I don't think the issue is that the warning is too late. If anything it's that the overwhelmed/shocked pilot has tunnel vision and cannot see/hear things going on and tunes out the warning.

 

 

Normally I'd agree that you need idle to get down close to landing. But there are exceptions. For example, a long shallow straight-in with a brisk headwind.

[midlifeflyer]

What's interesting about this poll is that checklists seem to be the least effective measure at preventing gear ups. 

I'm not sure the poll really suggests that. It pretty much asks how close you got and what saved you.

 

The normal use of a checklist, whether written, mental, flow or event-triggered, prevents you from getting into a position where you need to be "saved"   to begin with. 

[Joe Zuffoletto]

My theory is that the factory throttle-based system warns the pilot too late. In the flare, you are already expecting the stall warning beeps and can mistake the gear warning for the expected stall. If we had a system that warned the pilot several hundred feet in the air, we would have plenty of time to fix the problem.

 

I don't remember my Encore having a gear up warning system, but the Acclaim does and it's quite effective. After I put about 25 hours on the Acclaim I decided one day to simulate an approach to landing at my home airport with the gear up to see what would happen. On downwind I had to pull the throttle almost to idle to slow to flap operating speed, at which time I got a continuous "Check gear! Check gear! Check gear!" until I lowered the gear. Very nice.

[N601RX]

I've tried a gear up approach before also.  I always drop gear 1st and them flaps and fly the pattern at a know power setting/airspeed. When skipping the gear and flaps and flying the same pattern as before I was still 500' above the runway which is only 2000'.  To have made the landing I would have to changed the normal power/airspeed setting substantially. 

[201er]

I will admit that when practicing "simulated engine outs" with the throttle idle, you quickly tune out the gear warning and are holding off to put the gear down as long as possible. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

[jetdriven]

I will admit that when practicing "simulated engine outs" with the throttle idle, you quickly tune out the gear warning and are holding off to put the gear down as long as possible. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

so always commit to doing a go-around at 200'.   then return for normal ops landing.

[Hank]

I will admit that when practicing "simulated engine outs" with the throttle idle, you quickly tune out the gear warning and are holding off to put the gear down as long as possible. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

I fly a nearly-normal pattern, with flaps and gear at the normal spot, but I do tend to turn base a little earlier. Judging that by position and descent rate isn't hard, it only takes a couple or three times to figure it out. I've done simulated engine out to land for BFRs with different instructors, once at a narrow 2500' strip somewhere in upstate NY.

[kellym]

 

My theory is that the factory throttle-based system warns the pilot too late. In the flare, you are already expecting the stall warning beeps and can mistake the gear warning for the expected stall. If we had a system that warned the pilot several hundred feet in the air, we would have plenty of time to fix the problem.

 

Larry

The factory gear switch is adjustable. I prefer it around 12" MP, but if you set it to 14" you likely will have it going off by the time you turn final, unless you routinely approach low and flat needing more power. I tend to come in a bit high so that I am power idle most of the way down final. I don't like depending on the engine to get me to the runway once I am in the pattern.

I fly ILS fast enough, usually 105kts so that if I see the runway at 200ft, the throttle is going to idle immediately to slow down. Of course I use the gear to intercept the glideslope, so if it doesn't go down I'd either go above gear speed or would be pulling power back close the the gear alarm point.

Kelly

[Jonwayne79]

I don't want to offend anyone here, but in my opinion, there is no reason to ever forget the gear.  Whether you have a working gear warning system or not, it has to become part of your pre-landing checklist, written or mental.  For example, I do a GUMP check at least 3 times during a normal pattern.  In fact, I always say it out loud.  The last time I do it is after I've turned onto final.  I say out loud "gear is down" and then say "heels on the floor" to make sure that my feet aren't on the brakes (but that's a different issue).  I know that some have said that when you're doing a simulated engine out, you tune the warning system out, but a thorough mental checklist will remind you.  Yes, there are times, especially during an emergency, when the pilot becomes distracted, but training yourself to say "gear is down" on final will remind you to check the gear.  Of course, don't just say it.  Check it!!  Again, I don't want to offend anyone who has forgotten the gear, but I don't believe the saying that "There are those that have and those that will."  To me, that's putting a negative thought in your head that "Hey, I'm gonna do this eventually."  Don't believe that bull.  It's the same thing as saying, "Hey, I'm gonna eventually crash this plane, but it's expected."  If you consistently perform the same checklist EVERY time you land, you can prevent this from happening.

[Jsavage3]

In addition to verbally saying "gear is down", I would suggest one additional thing to say...  

 

I point at the gear handle & the illuminated "gear down" light while saying aloud, "gear is down ..." then I point at the green donut on the floor and continue with "and locked".  I do this technique every single time I do the GUMPs check.

 

Jonwayne79, point taken about my comment, I understand what you mean.  My point is we must never allow ourselves to become complacent when it comes to ensuring the gear is down.