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Newer POHs contain more data… including stall speed charts that include various weights… Best glide speed is also a function of weight… If you study a newer POH with the added data charts… you might see a 10 Kt difference between heavy and light weights…. For the best logic in selecting the landing speed…. There is a Mooney CFII around here that publishes an excellent package of info simplified into a basic chart…. I keep that as a handy reference for what speed to fly on final… It is a real course on energy management, and safety management, when you have a 2k’ runway, surrounded by trees, and strong winds at altitude… and one windsock a half mile away…. +1 for the AOAi But where is the fun in that… it presents you with that how much excess energy am I carrying now, in a single needle, or colored light stack. No complex summations, or digging through a flight back for a chart… Be sure to know how your AOAi is calibrated… based on a single configuration, or two? PP thoughts only, not a CFI… Best regards, -a-

Oscar at home on grass strips… if anyone asks if Mooneys are good on grass… @Oscar Avalle has the answer right here! having the AOAi probably simplifies things a bit. Great video as always. Best regards, -a-

Checking your POH is the easiest way to find the things required for flight… day,night,VFR,IFR… Keep in mind… The stall warning usually only gets heard in the last moments of landing… Unless you are doing slow flight training… It is a mistake warning… the kind you want to let you know you have made a mistake… when important, The stall warning comes on after a distraction… somewhat unexpectedly… About the AOAi… A great device to use, in real time, to know where you are, with respect to stalling… but doesn’t do the same thing… You want both… One to fly by… the other to warn you of a mistake you are making… while you are probably not even watching the AOAi… Real Stalls happen with very little notice… The surprise sound of the stall horn, triggers a quick reaction…. Flying without an operational stall warning is a bad idea… You are unlikely to need it… But, when you need it, and it doesn’t sound… the ground coming up at you would be an eye opening experience… Have your mechanic try to revive your switch… it is an industrial BK switch that lasts nearly forever… PP thoughts only, not a mechanic… Best regards, -a-

There is a near complete chart for each Mooney regarding stall speeds, configuration, weight and bank angles… And of course… power on vs. power off… having an AOAi really helps with this many variables… One thing for sure… MGTW, full flaps, straight and level stall speed for LBs… 58kias… (?) (?) indicates… taken from fuzzy old memories, not looked up in a chart… Which leads to a discussion of all the various combinations of flaps and gear… Financially, it is easy to see where the factory chose to test things… 1) landing configuration…. Mooney chose one configuration to describe… full flaps and gear down… and MGTW? 2) climb configuration… Mooney chose one configuration to describe… T/O flaps… Because this is where MSers have actually run into trouble… Most MSer disasters begin while climbing to TPA… How many planes, in real life, at the end of a flight… that stall in the landing configuration… are any where near MGTW? Best regards, -a-

Welcome aboard Flyso! Kind of a flaps/no flaps kind of discussion… 1) AOAi(s) are a great tool for many people… i is for indicator, (s) is for plural…. 2) If your WnB calculations are always accurate, and your memory skills support your simple math skills… the AOAi would be a bit of redundancy…. 3) If you prefer to skip the detailed WnB as it changes during the flight… The AOAi, properly used, skips all the math and just delivers the answer… 4) The AOAi answers the question… At Exactly what speed should I be approaching the runway to land nicely at… if my weight is exactly unknown to me right now. 5) I like examples of how Mr. Yeager flies a plane… I know I wasn’t born with, or acquired his talents…. I should get an AOAi… 6) Mr. Yeager probably didn’t have an LHS either… +1 for adding the Landing height system as well… 7) It comes down to excess cash…. If you have excess cash… spend it on jewelry for your Mooney… The AOAi is an excellent piece of jewelry that is functional as well… 8) If you want to see an AOAi in action… watch any of @201er ‘s videos… He has a tendency of landing on the center line all the time…. And when you listen for the tire scrub noises, the mains touch down a second before the nose does… Other aural clues that indicate the value… of the AOAi… inside the cabin, the stall horn always comes on briefly, just prior to touch down… 9) If you don’t always hear buzz, chirp, chirp when you land… or your turn off the runway is longer than you’d like…. Your speed control probably needs some help… 10) 201er’s AOAi is ancient analog technology… but delivers the details… 11) Modern technology… get the display up where your eyes are already looking… better than scanning instruments on final approach… 12) Mounting and calibrating are important parts of the success of any device… follow the instructions. 13) There are several reviews around here for every AOAi device ever installed in a Mooney… use the search by name… 14) Hmmmm… how much would I have to spend to be able to fly like Mr. Yeager…….? I’d probably need a few devices to even come close…. Probably a few more hours of training every week…. Go AOAi… it is a support instrument that improves your landing skills… More importantly, it calculates how close you are to stall speed, when the bank angle is not matching your memorized chart values… Some AOAi(s) have provisions for multiple flap positions… others are only calibrated for one flap position… Choose your weapons wisely! Go MS! PP thoughts only, not a CFI… Best regards, -a-

Great follow-up U! Speed control gets us in the ballpark… Sight picture gets us to the ground unscathed…. Loss of sight picture… may need recalibration or refamiliarization… Two results of a lost sight picture…. 1) Plane partially stalls above the surface of the runway…. If the stall horn comes on for an extended period of time…. The pilot has stopped flying before reaching the ground… hard landing follows…. 2) Plane hits the runway harder than usual…. On the mains… followed by the nose wheel bounce…. Porpoise follows the nose wheel bounce… Taking time off from flying can lead to subtle recalibration requirements for the Mark I eyeball…. A well executed landing… often comes with subtle signs… the plane often celebrates with three light tones… 1) A brief stall horn blip 2) A squeak from the mains 3) A separate squeak from the nose tire a fraction of a second later a change of WnB and engine rpm can really mix in how fast energy is leaving the system… in the last moments of flying…. It really helps if you can scan instruments while landing… airspeed and AOAi are really helpful data to know… PP thoughts only… not a CFI…. Best regards, -a-

Know your plan, fly your plan, know your stall speeds and bank angles… Do not exceed your target bank angle… Getting cross controlled is pretty easy to do when cognitively loaded… use an extra safety device… like lowering the nose to unweight the wings… in the turns… If the flying budget allows… the AOAi is a good device… There is no reason to increase the bank to get on the arbitrary center line… Easy / subtle corrections or GAs… Prayers for the lost airman and thanks for the opportunity to discuss things to avoid in this case… Best regards, -a-

Things that go well together…. Short field… AOAi… VGs…. Cruise at altitude…. Good speed control… -a-

There are many BK AOAi owners around here… (use a search to find them) It was more popular when it first came out…. Calibrating AOAi(s) is generally complex enough to want to have two people on board to execute the procedure… Best regards, -a-

Signs of a well executed landing…. All or most of the energy gets bled off in ground effect… As the plane slows, the AOA increases, the wheels touch at/near full stall… hence the stall horn announcing the arrival… before relying on the stall horn to work… it helps to get it to sound during slow flight at altitude first… It also gets a preflight test… add it to the check list… There are many MSer YTers…. @201er has a couple of good landing videos and angle of attack indicator AOAi discussions… Extra points are awarded when the nose wheel touches the centerline… Fly often… things get more precise with recent experience… PP thoughts only, not a CFI… -a-

Inviting @201er to the conversation… (positive AOAi discussion…) Question for @Jerry 5TJ… when using your Alpha AOA system… does it know the current configuration? How do you know you are reading the correct indication for the current configuration? My fear… a small amount of stress, I may make a mistake reading the flaps up/down triangles of the other dual configuration systems… Best regards, -a-

I think you may have mixed a point in there… wait for Robert’s reply… If I read this correctly…. Or I mixed a point… The slow things were the VGs and the fourth blade… The EI was a cause of extra heat… as more fuel gets completely converted before exiting the cylinder… aka the improved efficiency… CHT#5 is the known hot spot for O’s IO550 installation… LHS + AOAi = great speed control and good flare height control for nice easy landings…. (Easy on the airframe….) Super cool pirep Robert! (Electronic ignition for an IO550, VGs, LHS and the MT) One question… did you get the MT dynamically balanced after install? (Just wondering) Best regards, -a- Note for Imin… Check to see if the TopProp above can be used on a Lycoming IO360…. It is coming off a Continental IO550…

That horse is very dead… The landing height sensor is getting good reviews… The AOAi is getting good reviews… And there is a fair amount of discussions regarding Class III - SI(s) around here as well… … and Basic Med. Pick your battles wisely… there aren’t enough hours in the day to fight them all… So…. Engineer, software experience… How are you are you with writing STCs? We have a few around here… Best regards, -a-

RT, I think you hit on the point… We are more human than you can imagine… and very prone to human error… 1) There are new technologies available so the screaming gear horn doesn’t get confused for something else under high stress… 2) The word distraction gets used to describe when the brain fades, under high work load… 3) The belief that it won’t happen to you because… (place your reason here) … is a great way to set yourself up for a GU… 4) Gumps, Gumps, Gumps…. You will find that people only do two… under the best conditions… 5) While you are still flying fixed gear…. Add a simulated switch and practice using it and checking the gear to be down… 6) One thing that will be different when you fly a Mooney… your time in the pattern will be slightly different…. But not by very much… 7) Lights in front of you are typically your AOAi…. Adding more lights has to be thought out carefully…. 8) The brain is really good at focusing on the primary objective…. And ignoring alarms on final approach… 9) Cost…. Figure out how much you want to spend on fancy reliable alarms… and add that to your flying budget… 10) read all you can about distractions… what causes it, and how to avoid it… it isn’t the classic having girls on your mind while in school… 11) Ever have difficulty making position reports on the radio at the various points around the traffic pattern? Ever skip one because you were busy doing something else? Ever hear other pilots stumble through their simple position report? PP thoughts only, not a cognitive therapist… Best regards, -a-

The cool things about the extra drag of these talented devices…. 1) They are really far back from where the laminar flow is most important…. 2) When flying a TC’d or TN’d Mooney… the air is pretty thin in the O2 levels…. Making the measurable drag become really hard to measure…. 3) If you frequent short fields… these devices have a tendency to lower your stall speed, thus your approach speed… making braking distances really shorter. PIC still has to be really qualified for landing on short fields… Really mentally tough to add things to a Mooney like another antenna, AOAi, or VGs…. For all that drag… Getting a turbine engine would help with the decision making… Best regards, -a-

Check to see if it has the sensorless AOAi still… That aspect wasn’t working when MSers first got the device… The AV30 had other issues that were more serious… precession related. Really fuzzy PP memories… Best regards, -a-

Jumping between planes (GA) and trusting an AOAi without knowing how or if it was calibrated could be interesting… without going through slow flight and having eyes on the instrument… there doesn’t seem to be a calibration like for the pitot/static system… How do you know your Boeing/Airbus system is up and running properly? They have all learned a ton about AOA vanes over the years… Best regards, -a-

They don’t cost very much…. My favorite question… 1) They aren’t needed… if… 2) Real pilots have tremendous memory, and plenty of time to memorize POH pages… then never forget the detail. 3) Real pilots always know exactly how much weight they are carrying… 4) Real pilots never exceed their target bank angle while turning… 5) Real pilots always approach a landing with a stabilized approach… 6) Real pilots always know how fast they are going while looking out the windows…. Some kind of sixth sense… 7) Real pilots can have an AOAi aide them by displaying how far away from the stall they actually are… 8) If you follow all the rules, and have the charts memorized, and are familiar accelerated stalls…. The AOAi is there to back up your reasoning and your memory skills… So… if you have added Ceis fuel level gauges where you already have a calibrated FF/totalizer… you will like the AOAi…. It’s that good… If your budget is tight and you can’t swing another payment to include an AOAi…. You are kind of stuck doing it the old fashioned way…. Memorization and awareness…. Sure a fighter has huge weight variations and giant charts to memorize… and they are flown by the best pilots…. But Mooneys are flown really close to the edge of their envelope each time we get close to landing… End result… if you use short runways, or your memory has aged, or stress messes with your thought process…. The AOAi is a great tool to use as a visual back-up to your flying skills, memory skills, and logic skills…. If you are afraid somebody will find out you use one… tell them it came with the plane… the PO had money to burn…. Or… just tell them you don’t trust your stall horn to work… the AOAi tells you where you are continuously… the stall horn only tells you, you are going too slow… The stall horn never tells you that it is working… make sure to test it during pre-flight… A summary… it is worth it. It is fun data to have… It has limitations…. But real pilots know what they are for their system… Real Mooney pilots typically have to struggle with the exterior probe… it may slow you down 0.1 knots or so… Super real pilots like to land with precision… Beeeep, chirp, on the centerline…. The AOAi won’t help with the centerline…. PP thoughts only, A fun way to mix technology with flying… Best regards, -a-

There is one of every kind of AOAi around here installed in every type of Mooney around here… Everything the lower cost CYA100 to fancy in your color display Aspen…. There must be a half dozen suppliers today… They are good. They work… They require a decent calibration to have them work… If you want to land your Mooney like @201er it helps to have an AOAi like he uses… If you like to hear… 1) Beeeeep (stall warning) 2) Chirp (tires accelerating) In rapid succession, while landing on the centerline… do what 201er does…. Best regards, -a-

+1 for consistency... and minimizing the approach angle... But, what if you are landing over a 50’ tree, onto a short runway..? +1 for Don Kaye’s landing video and details... +1 For using speed brakes... but, you aren’t going to feel a difference.... notice a difference... you might be able to measure a slight difference... Same with raising the flaps... both are methods of dumping lift to put weight on the wheels for braking... But, Speed control is what makes things work... Speed control is all about selecting final approach speed based on the actual weight of the plane at that moment... That’s what makes the AOAi kind of an interesting device... Knowing your Vso and calculating 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3 X Vso will help in this conversation.... Know your stall speeds... including the banks used prior to the landing portion... Practicing scan rate in and out of the cockpit can be helpful... knowing your speed or AOA at all times is helpful... PP thoughts only... NOT a CFI..... Best regards, -a-

All true David... Consider what else the AOAi does for the user... It is a precise method of selecting the right speed to land today... Since a 10kias overspeed turns into a 1k’ float down the runway.... The AOA users have a great tool to use when trying to land with precision... pick the stripe you want to land on, and put it there... Sure a skilled Mooney pilot doesn’t need the extra tool... if he knows his current gross weight.... and has memorized the stall speeds for his plane... Has a copy of Don Kaye’s landing speed chart... One of these days... I’m going to add an AOAi... Slow flight around the pattern, with banks... I’d like to know how much lift I have in reserve while adjusting the attitude... Low power, descending turn... will I feel anything before the bottom drops out? Either getting too slow, or banking too much... (just wondering) Best regards, -a-

For display... up above the glare shield seems to be a good place... There are two MSers around here that put the display close to inline with looking out the windshield... The CYA100 was a few colored lights, that went well on the center tube... The more high end AOAi had a display that mounted to the top of the glare shield... with a fold up and down option... +1 for knowing where to glance, and getting what you need... in the smallest amount of time... The closer I get to the runway, the less I like looking down at the instrument panel... Best regards, -a-

Some people really know how to fly their Mooney... Some people have great memory of how exactly they landed their Mooney 550 weeks ago... Some grass strips are smoother than some paved strips... Some people can afford the extra maintenance that may occur with minor damage... M20Es are pretty light, and come with extra power... and a total loss doesn’t set you back as far as a lost LB would... Bryan proved that a human being can land a Mooney on several unimproved strips... often. So... Let’s say you fly often... if all of your landings have the stall horn sound just before your mains touch... And you haven’t bounced a landing since you were new to flying... You use an AOAi because your kids thought you would like one... You know the stall charts as if you studied them yesterday... What’s left... avoid any holes, and long grass, and tall transitions to/from paved surfaces... Flying off of grass strips it clearly covered in the O1’s POH... If you don’t have performance charts for grass strips... you didn’t get the good Ovation... Inner gear doors are designed to be removable... Continue to enjoy the Mooney Life! It takes a few pieces of bad luck, or il-preparation to come together to cause a problem... The nose gear of a long body hasn’t ever collapsed because it wasn’t strong enough... good luck finding a report that says one has... (don’t confuse the pile driver maneuver of the third bounce as a structural weakness... going against training is a cognitive weakness...) Obviously, we don’t have tundra tires... like many of the back country flyers... there are going to be things that they can do, that is best to let them have their fun... I don’t use grass strips... and it isn’t the airplane’s fault... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a-

There are a few pireps here... The altitude above the ground is piped through your audio panel... Given at certain intervals of height... If you want to improve your landing consistency under all kinds of conditions and runway dimensions... This device and an AOAi will make a great combination... The sensor has been around for a brief period... the actual pireps are just starting to come in... Including one from DK, the doctor of Mooney landing science.... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a-

There are many ways to accidentally have a GU landing... Including having one with your CFI onboard... or... Having a video of it while the GU alarm is screaming the whole way.... (not an MSer...) Some MSers have enough skill to balance the plane perfectly... and run a wheelie down the centerline before departing again... The benefit of the TnG... time saved when paying by the rental hour... The risk of the TnG... they are known methods of causing a GU landing... (cognitive overload) Once you own the Mooney... the time saved usually doesn’t mean very much... The risk doesn’t change... own/rent... How you feel after the GU landing... when you think, could I have done better..? Or when your pilot pals get together and say there are two types of retract pilots... those who.... In the end... the desire to do a TnG seems to fade... Most of the videos around here get scored on... Do the mains and nose wheel touch down separately... or is there only microseconds between them... Can you hear the stall horn sound about a second before the mains touch... does the nose wheel land on the centerline... Did the mains touch after the numbers, but before the first stripe... The TnG seems to be a fictional measurement of pilot skill discussed often in flight schools... Being able to know landing speeds for your landing GW... helps... having an AOAi makes things a lot easier... watch a few videos... score them with an objective view point... what are you looking for? Pp thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a-