Marauder

Figuring out these database subscriptions was harder than getting the launch codes for an ICBM. I think I understand them and can help explain the panel mount stuff. On the Garmin 650 you have a basemap, obstacle, terrain, safe taxi and nav. Where the confusion comes in is what each does and what do you need. The basemap is exactly that. Think of it as a map of the United States but lacking any details. The obstacle database is for the man made obstacles that we are so good at making. These windmills going up everywhere is a good example. The terrain database is the topography portion. This rarely changes. These are earth based features that can only change from something major happening. like Mount Saint Helen blowing it's top off. The safe taxi is the map of an airport with you georeferenced on it. And the Nav database. This is the one that contains all of the airways, VORs , approaches, etc. Of all these, only the Nav is required to be updated and current for IFR. On the 750, you have the same plus a FliteChart subscription to get the approach plates. Both Garmin and Jepp sell these subscriptions. Now this is where it gets crazy. Garmin sells these databases through a single update, in subscriptions (except for the terrain) and in PilotPaks. The lite version of the PilotPaks doesn't contain the Jepp Nav data (only the rest of the databases). So, if you want to use Jepp and jsum to update your Nav database, you can go to Jepp and buy their subscription. And then buy the other databases from Garmin. Jepp charges $450 for a 650 Nav only database. Garmin $499. But you can buy the full Garmin PilotPak that includes the Jepp nav data for $862 and from what I read on their website, you can update ALL radios in one airplane for that price. See below: PilotPaks provide all the databases below to be used with any combination of qualified devices installed in one aircraft, all for a single annual price. Depending on the amount of qualifying avionics and the PilotPak selected, pilots can save anywhere from 20% to over 80% annually when compared to purchasing annual subscriptions to each database. This PilotPak provides all of the following databases and their periodic updates, for all qualifying avionics in a single aircraft for an entire year. Jeppesen NavData Obstacle Terrain SafeTaxi Airport Directory When you go to the Jepp site and put in two GTN650s, the price totals $607.50 -- but you don't get the other databases! This is where they got me! I thought I was getting all of the database updates for $450 for my 1 GTN instead of the $862 on the Garmin site. Little did I know that the rest of the databases are not maintained with the same subscriptions for the Nav one. When I called Jepp, they sent me a link to the site that contained these subscriptions. Guess what... It came in at more than $862.... really pissed me off. For the Aspen owners, there's more! Only the MFD gets updated. The MFD contains Nav, obstacle, terrain and flight chart data. The Nav, obstacle and terrain are only available from Jepp. Nice thing is that they allow you to use any microSD card to download the data. Bad thing, they won't allow you to order it electronically, you need to call to get the price. The flight chart data comes from Seattle Avionics. Here is the kicker. Seattle Avionics only supports the microSD card that comes with the MFD. And since the card needs to be in the unit while operating, I am forced to use the Aspen microSD. Nice... In my situation, I have decided to keep the obstacle, terrain and nav current on my Aspen MFD and only the Nav on the Garmin. That is what led me here today. I found the free update coupon from Garmin in my paperwork. Downloaded the basemap, terrain, obstacle and safetaxi databases to do at least 1 update -- and it didn't work. What a joy.... Here are the links for Garmin: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/aircraft/details.jsp?doAirMan=load&aircraftID=133996#dvc230833avdbtype_id_2 Non PilotPak price list: http://download.garmin.com/avdb/Garmin_Aviation_Database_Price_List.pdf Jepp Link for Garmin:http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/main/store/legal/charts/ads-overview.jsp And the icing on the cake... this is the Jepp full data package for my 1 GTN 650 (Garmin wanted $862 for it): PilotPak Standard + JeppView MFD: $1,442.00 Garmin GTN 600/700 NavData Full USA1 Garmin GTN 600/700 JeppView Full USA (All 48 Contiguous States)1 Garmin GTN 600/700 SafeTaxi United States1 Garmin GTN 600/700 Obstacles United States & Europe1 Garmin GTN 600/700 Terrain Worldwide1 Garmin GTN 600/700 Airport Directory United States1 Shipping & Handling:$11.50** Enroute charts are included. Total:$1,453.50 (But the good news is that the price is the same for 2 GTN 650s)

Jamie -- just noticed something. What is that dark colored patch on the right wing near the stall strip? Is it a landing light?

Hi Steve, I have two SD cards provided by the installer. They both have the same information on them except for the date. Here is what the older one looks like. Do you think the date has any impact? The part number is the same.

Beautiful

Hi All, I posted this on the Pilots of Americas website and got no responses on it! Maybe you guys/gals can tell me what is going on. I had a Garmin GTN650 installed in December. I purchased the Jepp Navigation annual subscription before realizing that Garmin had provided me a free database update. In January, I updated the Nav data using the Jepp jsum process. I saw that the terrain, obstacle and safe taxi databases were outdated. I went to the Garmin site and executed my free update coupon. I downloaded the obstacle, base map, terrain and safe taxi updates but was not able to get the current Nav (site stated I needed to buy it). I then got the current cycle of the Nav data from jsum. When I loaded the database SD in the Garmin, the Nav data (from Jepp) updated but I got errors on the rest. I contacted Garmin and they said to reload the SD and try again. Before I haul my butt out there again, has anyone seen this issue and what have you found to correct it. Here are some pics:

Like so many other things in life, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think the older schemes look dated on the Mooney. Sort of like my avocado kitchen before I ripped it out. Some people like retro looks, others can't stand them. I think they are appropriate for certain things and not for others -- including aviation. I personally would be disappointed to see a WWII Mustang painted in a modern paint scheme of a GA plane. But I can't wait to dump my 70s vintage paint style on my plane.

She is going to have problems pushing my plane in too! I don't see spikes on her anywhere.

Here are some pictures of my upgrade. The close up pictures of the Aspens shows the GPS signal loaded up on the PFD (the plane was in the hangar so the actual GPS signal isn't there) and the VOR signal from the Narco is on the MFD. The last picture is the autopilot reversion switch that Aspen provided the specifications for. Let me know if you have any questions.

Scott -- here are the pictures I promised.

That is my worry about any of the "spiked" options, I might be just dumb enough to climb my wing with them on. Oh, wait, I got an easy fix! I'll sell my Mooney and buy a Cessna! No chance of stepping on the wing then!

Somewhere along the way mine was completely removed and never put back on.

Same here. 6.5 seems to be the magic quantity. I always found it interesting how little is required in these engines as well (if I recall correctly, 2 quarts is the minimum in the Lycoming manual). Not that i would fly that way, but it seems to be an awfully low number.

Thanks for the links. Much more kind to my already worn out wallet. A side question; several of the owners in my hangar complex have installed electric winches to pull their planes in by the tail hook. I have never considered this option. Anyone know how strong the tail hook is on our planes?

Now that is a different approach. Do you know the brand on them?

If you find something that costs less than a college tutuition, let us know! I am dealing with the same stuff; slippery ramp with an incline to get into the building.

More like sell the Mooney and make college payments -- but I like your thinking.

Holy crap! I forgot about these! I have 6 sources of roll! I forgot about the Garmin Pilot on the Nexus 7 and the Garmin Pilot on the iPad 2!

I'm in BIG trouble! I now have 4 sources of roll indication (Aspen PFD, Aspen MFD in reversion, AI and TC connected to the STEC). Who do I believe when there is 4?!

In addition to calling clearance, it's great to be able to call the FBO when they don't answer their Unicom!

I went to a number of shops for quotes (8 in total if I remember correctly). As you might guess, they were all over the map. The highest density was in the $3200 range just for the installation of the Aspen. It was being interfaced to a Garmin GTN 650, PS 8000BT, my Narco Mark 12D+ and off course the pitot/static system. The Garmin had it's own installed price, so did the PS 8000BT. Let me know if you need specifics. There are a lot of "gotchas" and you need to ask the questions or you'll get the surprises later.

Without reading the thread, putting my Soothsayer hat on, thinking... the answer is PS Engineering 8000BT. Love mine.

David -- The Aspen PFD 1000 has different setup configurations for the various APs. As well, depending on what is driving the Nav, it will dictate how smooth the AP will function. With GPS and using the Aspen GPSS, my STEC 60 has never been that smooth. The Aspen has also improved the VOR tracking for me. If you are experiencing worse performance since upgrading, something is not right. On the STEC, the roll computer needed to be modified. Perhaps a similar modification is required.

I would have loved to see a picture of that. Had to look like a stuffed phone booth attempt.

I flew with my kids when they were around a year old. All of our flights were no longer than 2 hours long and nothing as aggressive as the flight you are planning. The biggest challenge is that other than crying they can't tell you what's wrong. I planned for slow descents (100 to 200 fpm) with periodic level offs to let things equilibrate. The pacifier also helps keep the tubes open. If you suspect they have any upper respiratory problems at the time of the trip, don't do it. You will want to make sure you keep him hydrated as well. Which also means being able to possibly change diapers in flight. And don't forget to use some of your useful load on toys.

Scott -- I will post some pictures when I get a chance. When I looked at the 650/750, I had a hard time justifying the additional money for the 750. It was a sizeable price difference and since I did not have an HSI, I opted to go with the Aspen PFD. The side benefit was that it gave my autopilot a whole new life with the GPSS capabilities. While the install was going on, I learned about the MFD capabilities and since I was having an Aspen already installed, Aspen stepped up and gave me a decent price for their MFD 1000 version (it is called the Aspen 2000 system -- PFD with a MFD 1000). And even though I thought I had done a ton of research prior to beginning the upgrade, I was surprised to find things I missed (like the EI fuel totalizer capable of interfacing with the Garmin). As well, there were "hidden" features that I encountered (like having the Aspen MFD fully control the autopilot during reversion through a switch). Aspen provided the wiring schematics for the option -- it's not listed on their site anywhere. I'm really happy with the end result. I never knew what I was missing out on.