M20F-1968

Chris: I have 1/4" glass all the way around. They are all screwed in as with the originals, but the screws are one size larger given the dimpling in the skin and existing hole sizes. We did not need to do any work to create a step in the window. Certainly the surface facing outside is flat and original. Obviously the window needed to be trimmed to fit. I do not believe there was any thinning of the glass anywhere. The work ws done by an excellent sheetmetal mechanic who had worked at Gulfstream X 20 yers. John Breda

The engine should at least be IRANed now, and given the age should be overhauled now. There is an AD on the oil pump on the IO360's (check on yours) that will likely need to do now. Some of the older STEC 60-2 have servos that can not be rebuilt. That may be another place in need of money. Instruments that have not been used may need overhaul. The tanks are another place where money will probably need to be spent if they have never been resealed (unlikely 50 year old sealant will be reliable). That will be about $9,000. Look beyond the paint and interior. Get a good Mooney I&A to go over everything and meticulously check for corrosion everywhere. Remember, it will be your A$$ in that plane. Buying an older plane is not an opportunity to save money. It is an opportunity to buy an airframe for as little as possible, with hopefully no damage history, where you can do the rebuilding yourself and know what you are flying. It will not be cheaper in the end. It the plane you are looking at seems like it has been maintained, you will still need to spend money you did not anticipate spending. You can buy a 10-15 year old plane and go over the logbooks and feel like you know what you are getting. In the case of a 50 year old plane, even if taken care of, may have gremlins no one has recognized. It is for this reason I bought a project airplane, knowing that I would be stripping it down to bare airframe and rebuilding everything. (It did a little redesigning in the process). Talk to a lot of people, know what you want to use the plane for, and realize with the state of equipment/avionics today, you may want to upgrade sooner than you think, so I would not put too much value in the equipment that is in the plane now (FYI: I do not see an S-TEC preselector in the panel). John Breda

Chris, I was told that they do increase the force needed to raise and lower the gear (in terms of work-load with the Johnson Bar). As such, you need to insure that you operate the gear at lower gear speeds. The two questions are (1) Is there an airspeed increase with them? (2) is the increase in workload/management of the Johnson Bar manageable or does it just become a headache? Is there anyone out there that has the inner gear doors on a manual gear Mooney? John Breda

I am considering putting inner gear doors on my 1968 F model with manual gear. I am told that they do add some stiffness to the raising and lowering of the gear. I have new main gear springs and the gear works very easily now. What experience has the group had with adding inner gear doors to a manual gear Mooney? What speed increase do you see? John Breda

Jimmy, I sent you an e-mail. Looking forward to seeing your work. John Breda

You would not want to put any sort of coating of the edge of the travel boards. There is enough to go wrong when copying them, this would just add another possible source of error. They are quite long so any error is magnified. John Breda

You will never find one in excellent condition. The best you could do is either fiberglass over the whole thing, or cut it along the seam and glass over each half (Probably easier and better the glass over the whole thing). Make a metal ring that is the right size and incorporate it into the fiberglass so the hose will attach easily. John Breda

I certainly have the materials to make sets for the F model. I would need to reassess how I might do it, as making them one at a time is very labor intensive. The price of the factory scales alone is more than most would pay. The scales can be duplicated and put onto an adhesive graphic. I can look into making them from aluminum. That will take some homework in creating the software to generate the outline shape for each board. It all can be done. As usual it takes time and money. I likely would hold on to the original set I have for reference. I could make a set to be used as a rental set. John Breda

I have copied a set for myself and also have an original set for reference which I acquired after I had made the copies. I am not working full-time currently and could make a run of travel boards. They are very time consuming to make by hand. I would need to get a sense of how many people might want them. What is the current factory price for these? John Breda

Jim: PM sent John Breda

SORRY about the double post. This one got sent prematurely. Please respond to the other one with the same title. John Breda

This is a question about how to safely de-fuel the airplane. My JPI 930 fuel tank gauges need to be recalibrated. I have Monroy long range tanks and and am using the current production style fuel senders (2 in each tank). I do have a fuel totalizer connected to the turbine wheel type sender. The JPI was never properly calibrated. With the long range tanks, the actual fuel volume is not equally divided for every 1/4 tank increase on the JPI gauges. I believe the maximum data points allowed by the JPI 930 are five data point, empty, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full. I wish I could calibrate the JPI with more data points, such as every 5 gallons, but apparently that is not possible. My plan is to burn off as much fuel as I can in one tank and then empty the remaining fuel into a 5 gallon bucket and put it in the opposite tank. Once one side is correctly calibrated, then I redo the some procedure on the other side. My question for the forum is what are the precautions I should take in draining the one tank and moving fuel to the opposite side? Thing I recognize are: 1. Ground the airplane. May use an auto jumper cable with alligator clips on each end, exhaust pipe to steel structure in hanger or electrical conduit. 2. Use a steel bucket to drain fuel into and ground the bucket as well 3. Have no carpets or blankets in the area which could generate static electricity 4. Avoid climbing in/out of plane 5. I plan on using the fuel sump drain to drain the remaining fuel (I know it will take some time) with a wire or string I can access through the pilot's window to pull up on the sump drain. 6. I have a filtered funnel for the other tank which is screened and separates out water as well (as I recall). 7. Perhaps leave the hangar door open to minimize fumes (but it is winter here). 8. Shut off the propane furnace (should I also shut off the pilot flame)? 9. May I leave lights on? I am obviously worried about the flammability issues while handling fuel. Is it safe to do this in a T hangar? Your thoughts are appreciated. Should I simply but a pump and sealed can rated for fuel? Or perhaps delegate this to a local mechanic, but I may be thinking more about the problems than a paid mechanic will. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON HOW TO DO THIS WILL BE APPRECIATED. Another thought may be to full the tank, fly 1/4 tank down at a time and recalibrate one 1/4 tank at a time starting with a full tank. The plane needs to be leveled to enter the calibration. Can the calibration be enter while in level cruise flight in calm air? John Breda

This is a question about how to safely de-fuel the airplane. My JPI 930 fuel tank gauges need to be recalibrated. I have Monroy long range tanks and and am using the current production style fuel senders (2 in each tank). I do have a fuel totalizer connected to the turbine wheel type sender. The JPI was never properly calibrated. With the long range tanks, the actual fuel volume is not equally divided for every 1/4 tank increase on the JPI gauges. I believe the maximum data points allowed by the JPI 930 are five data point, empty, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full. I wish I could calibrate the JPI with more data points, such as every 5 gallons, but apparently that is not possible. My plan is to burn off as much fuel as I can in one tank and then empty the remaining fuel into a 5 gallon bucket and put it in the opposite tank. Once one side is correctly calibrated, then I redo the some procedure on the other side. My question for the forum is what are the precautions I should take in draining the one tank and moving fuel to the opposite side? Thing I recognize are: 1. Ground the airplane. May use an auto jumper cable with alligator clips on each end, exhaust pipe to steel structure in hanger or electrical conduit. 2. Use a steel bucket to drain fuel into and ground the bucket as well 3. Have no carpets or blankets in the area which could generate static electricity 4. Avoid climbing in/out of plane 5. I plan on using the fuel sump drain to drain the remaining fuel (I know it will take some time) with a wire or string I can access through the pilot's window to pull up on the sump drain. 6. I have a filtered funnel for the other tank which is screened and separates out water as well (as I recall). 7. Perhaps leave the hangar door open to minimize fumes (but it is winter here). 8. Shut off the propane furnace (should I also shut off the pilot flame)? 9. May I leave lights on? I am obviously worried about the flammability issues while handling fuel. Is it safe to do this in a T hangar? Your thoughts are appreciated. Should I simply but a pump and sealed can rated for fuel? Or perhaps delegate this to a local mechanic, but I may be thinking more about the problems than a paid mechanic will. John Breda ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON HOW TO

I have a 68F and am well aware of what it takes to put a plane of this age into a condition that is acceptable (although I went much further than that since mine was taken apart when I bought it). You will not get the tanks to be in the condition you want them to be if they have never been stripped and resealed since new. You just bought the plane, and I assume it fits what you need and intend to keep it. Then, do the work right and strip and reseal both tanks. You may even want to install the long range tanks which gives an F exceedingly long legs. Paul Beck at Weep No More is the guy you should call. Figure out what you want the plane to do and what capabilities you want and make it happen. If the airframe is a great specimen, without any serious problems, you will have a great plane in the end. John Breda

Glad to hear all went well. Stories like this are a tribute to Mooney Owners on Mooneyspace and validate the reasons we have this website. It is also a testimonial to what I think sets us apart from other owners groups. I think Mooney owners are more in touch with the technical aspects of their machines, as it should be to facilitate safe flying. It is nice to be part of this community and I am sure others feel the same. John Breda

My 68F also has a retractable step. John Breda

The A1A does not have counterweights. I believe the B6 does. John Breda

I was taught to do the same thing every time. If flying an instrument approach, you will always pass the final approach fix at the same altitude as the glideslope. If passing through the IAF, slow the airplane and stabilize the approach, get into flap speed and add 1 notch flaps. If being vectored to the FAF, fly a stable approach, level at the crossing altitude for FAF, add 1 notch of flaps. If speed is correct and initial flaps in, just lowering the gear should put you about 500 fpm vertical speed down. Then flay the remainder of the approach as you need to adding flaps on the way down. In this way, you put gear down at FAF every time, and the speed and vertical descent support that the gear is down. I check that my johnson bar is down and locked by pulling down on it on final. The P2 warning system confirms gear is down and ready for landing. I pull on the johnson bar again to insure down and locked. If VFR, gear is put down abeam the numbers on downwind along with 1 notch of flaps. Gear is checked on base and again on final by puling on the johnson bar. Flaps added as indicated. P2 again gives gear down for landing on final. If flying a VFR straight in approach, I try (if not too distracting) to put in an approach so I have vertical guidance and FAF even though actually VFR. I have been told, many time, consistency is Key. Do it the same way every time. John Breda

Hartzell made a spinner that looks like this one and bulkhead which mounts to the aft side of the prop hub. It was used by Russell Stallings in his cowl conversion. It is better than the J spinner (which was made for the McCauley anyway) and bulkhead as the J model bulkheads cracked. Are you installing it on an F with a 2 or 3 blade prop? You are better installing a 2 blade prop on an IO-360. Try to track down the spinner and bulkhead info with Hartzell. John Breda

I second the reference to AC 43.13. The repair is called a nickel and dime patch and is just that, a a smaller aluminum piece which just fits into the hole you are patching (of the same thickness of the skin you are patching) riveted to a larger piece which is riveted to the inside of the skin being patched. There are requirements in 43.13 showing degree of overlap, number of rivets needed and rivet spacing. The rivets can be countersunk and should be. Once the patch is done, a bit of filler and pain and you will not know it is there. A good A&P will know how to do this. John Breda

There are a few engine dehydrators made that drop relative humidity by using dessicant crystals, in either an open loop or closed loop system. There are also plans to make a system. Who has experience with these, are they worth the effort (I am in a hangar which I keep at 48 degrees in winter and ambient temp and humidity in summer in MA). Any info would be helpful. This link has a number of references: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/engine-dehydrators.55078/ John Breda

I have been down this road. I would expect that the $100,000 limit is probably off by a factor or 2 to 3, or perhaps more. This is a project that only has value if you turn the airplane into something exceptional. It represents alot of work and EVERYTHING on this airframe needs to be taken off, cleaned, primed, rebuilt or replaced, naturally including the engine. There will be parts you have not even though of that will need to be replaced. Consider this to be the start of a kitplane, except with a DER and IA it can be completed as a certified airplane. Lots of work and time and not to be taken lightly. Hayward is on the ocean. It takes quite alot to corrode the chromed yoke shafts. I would be concerned about the condition of steel elsewhere. The nose gear is also corroded. The structural cage would need to be looked at closely. Everything can be fixed, with enough time, expertise, workspace and money. John Breda

I did not separate the tailcone from the rest of the airplane. That is the weakest part of the airframe and I did not want to mess with it. I took the engine off and empennage off, collapsed the nose gear and set it with the wings aligned with the length of a flat bed trailer, firewall down and tailcone up. This is fine for short distances but would be difficult for any long moves. For long distance moves, take the wing off and move it in 4 pieces, fuselage, wing, empennage and tailcone. John Breda

When I did my project F model it cost me $2000 to move it 20 minutes by highway across Dallas. John Breda

Agree that consistency is important. GUMPS out loud abeam numbers, base and final or at IAF and final. I grab the J bar and pull down at least 1 time to insure the thumb lack is engaged. I also installed the P2 warning system a yer ago. It is a good back-up to the afore mentioned. If gear is down, a male voice says, "Gear is down for landing." If gear is not down, a female voice says repeatedly "Gear! Gear! Gear!" until you fix the problem. The P2 unit talks to me at 85 kts airspeed. Well worth the $2000. John Breda