Cris

Peter wrote "Also when on an IFR plan or in direct communication with ATC they're accounting for them.

The upgrade path from 602/610 is a slide in replacement "provided" you do not need a new wiring harness. This would be required if the existing harness does not have a few extra inches in it to attach to the shorter case of the G series and/or you can't move the G series to a panel position that will allow it to connect to the old harness. There have been various upgrade offers and the $200 previously mentioned is a good deal even if you use them as spares. I think that was only available when the G1 first came out. In my case I needed a new harness and went with the G2 because it gives you fuel flow required to do lean of peak ops. The web site gives the various options for each model but I did not want or need the complexity of the additional probes with the G3. Presently I need to return it to the factory as the fuel flow is no longer working. It remains to be seen if it is an installation issue or if the unit or fuel module is defective but it is under warrantee. I remember the factory saying they might change the upgrade to include a new harness since lots of folks have had a similar problem which of course increases the cost. Update The unit was repaired at the factory and included all of the latest mods/software. They wer unsure of the problem and included a new fuel sensor "just in case" all at no charge. Works perfectly now. Customer service is awesome. It was returned in a week!

A stabilized approach is your primary consideration and flying by the numbers works best. Since the long bodies are heavier they are harder to slow on the decent. Initiate an approach level speed of 105 Kts. achieved 2 miles from the GS/FAF. At the GS intercept or the FAF you can simply drop the gear resulting in a 500'/min decent rate. Adding approach flaps decreases airspeed by about 7 Kts. and can be equalized by adding 1" of manifold pressure. I use approach flaps always but it can be done either way by the numbers and once the runway is in sight I use full flaps. If a go around is required it is easily handled but requires a strong hand on the yoke until the trim is removed. Each 1" of manifold pressure equals about 100'/min. An alternative approach is to drop the gear 2 miles from the GS intercept or FAF and adjust power for 105 Kts. At the GS intercept or FAF reduce power by 5" of manifold pressure which gives you the aforementioned 500'/min decent rate. Adding back the 5" will cause the AC to level for step descents. The 105 Kts works for most ILS or longer runways bearing in mind that one will land at 70-75 Kts. On shorter runways the approach speed will be 90 Kts. Specifics @105 Kts. are 2200 rpm, 18" mp, flaps up, gear down or 19" with approach flaps. @90 Kts. 13" MP or 14" with approach flaps. BTW Continentals "strong suggestion" for a minimum rpm of 2300 is applicable for cruise configuration only. Holds and approaches are specifically excluded from the restriction.

I'm curious as to the technique requiring a manometer and vacuum? I would have thought a few drops of the locktite on the rivet from the inside of the tank would be sufficient unless maybe a vacuume on the outside of the wing over the offending rivet would help draw the locktite to a better seal. Could you explain? Thanks

I am in need of the wiring harnesses for an Stec 55x panel controller as well as the install tray for my upgrade. I've tried Wentworth salvage with no success. Any help is appreciated.

Well Hank you mentioned a few things such as speed which makes decisions happen faster, slips that should be avoided, and then their is the higher level of complexity of the avionics suite which typically takes 20-25 hr. To become reasonably comfortable. However in my experience the real issue is in the landing phase. The long body like the Ovation or Eagle sits on the ramp with a 4 1/2 degree pitch attitude. It is greater than the short/mid body. As a result the sight picture and pitch attitude on landing is much different than the 5 degrees typical for most A/C to keep the nose wheel off the ground. Add to this the fact that the instrument panel is higher than on the other Mooney's and you have a recipe for a difficult transition. When landing especially with two on board the CG moves forward and a good landing is about 8 degrees nose up required to keep the nose wheel off the ground and/or to prevent three point landings as opposed to the more typical 5 degrees on the other Mooney's. It often means full up trim so that one must be comfortable with a full flap full trim go around and many pilots just don't practice this very often. It is easily managed but is a bit of a surprise if one is not proficient with their go around technique. Typically you will find new long body pilots wheel barrowing their landings or bouncing three point landings both of which lead quickly to prop strikes. My own plane suffered from just such a landing with just 45 hrs on it. It required an overhaul and new prop.

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As Anthony says "Do it before the class III medical becomes a personal issue. That's my take on it..." A few years ago my family questioned why I wanted to own another Mooney and I told them I did'nt want to wait till I was 70 to enjoy it without medical concerns. How true that turned out to be. Took me more than three months to get my current 3 rd class medical. Life is short. enjoy it now. I've owned 8 Mooney's E,J,K,S and had exclusive access to an R. Moving from short body to mid body is easy. Moving from mid body to long body is a higher learning curve especially if you have long term muscle memory from what you are currently flying. The later models offer better ergonomics and typically better avionics. Like a Porsche buy the latest model you can afford. It will pay dividends long term,

So far as I know the 55x gives you GPSS built in and it is updated for Wass. Beyond that there are minimal differences but Sarasota Avionics has an upgrade program allowing you to trade the 55 for a 55x so you might check with them on details. I think the cost is 5k plus installation.

Wow folks, Thanks all for the info. Tom I'll look into the drawings and contact you off line. Stec seems to believe I must buy the STC from them so this could save me $1600. Mike thanks for the Stec manual. Chris I would appreciate the wiring diagrams. I have not been able to fly as I lost my medical but just got it back after the Feds decided to get back to work. Took my flight physical on Sept 30 th and then the Gov. shutdown but got it in the mail a few days ago so I will be able to get to the fly ins again. I'm still planning on a King KSN 770 and since it would require a complete wiring interface with my S-tec 30 I figure this is the ideal time to move to the 55X at minimal additional cost. This will all be installed by an S-tec/King shop. I do need the T & B for the 55x as well as a tray in case anyone has those available.

I am upgrading my autopilot from an S-tec 30 with manual electric trim to a 55x. I'd like to add the autotrim option available with the 55x and am wondering what is the differance in hardware between the two other than the computer? Is there an additional trim servo as an example? Also the S-tec 30 is coming out of an airframe with 490 hrs tt and is mint. I will be keeping the servo's so it is just the head and the pitch computer and It is 28 v so it would need a voltage reducer for the 14 v A/C. I might also have available the trim servo for the manual trim. S-tec charges $1600 for the STC to make it legal to be installed into another similar Mooney. PM me if interested.

Got an email back from Sarasota today indicating they are waiting on King to give them wiring diagrams and an estimate of install time before they can give me a final quote. What I had gotten previously was a rough estimate. They also said they expected Dec for installs. Called Bendix King directly who confirmed they are taking pre orders now with delivery scheduled for late Nov. Early Dec. They will get back to me to confirm/deny $1000 end user discount offered thru year end at Oshkosh.

Good thinking. Maybe we can get comparison quotes. They have quoted me before so they can look up the specs on my A/C N20098 & me Cris Gleason.

Well there are a number of Bendix King dealers around here like Summit Aviation in Wilmington Dl or Penn Avionics in Phila. Or C & W in Caldwell NJ Those would be within an hour for all of us and are all top shops. In fact I think Penn Avionics is or was affiliated with Sarasota Avionics.

I don't have the final quote back as they had a couple of questions on my current equipment and wanted to check with King on install time. I'll let you know as soon as I have it. I asked them if King was still honoring the $1000 discount that they were offering at Oshkosh and that was supposedly good thru year end. Informally the install cost should come in about 1-2 K more than a GTN 650 installation since the unit at $11289 discounted from Sarasota is a bit more but the installation should be about the same. Garmin has a $500 rebate going on now. Anybody up for a group buy?

Spins should not be attempted for all the reasons cited. Unfortunately many Mooney pilots are also fearful of practicing stalls. Assuming the A/C is rigged properly and the BALL is CENTERED the A/C will not enter into a spin. In my experience what I see happen is that as the student gets close to the stall he/she is looking out the window and not glancing at the ball or worse has their feet on the floor as opposed to the rudder pedals. I am watching that student like a hawk to be certain they are coordinated and this is the single biggest issue I find necessary to correct when practicing stalls. Fact is most pilots do not get close to slow flight except on touchdown and seem oblivious to the rudder in order to remain coordinated. Stalls are not inherently dangerous but terribly unforgiving in done incorrectly.

Sarasota is taking pre orders for delivery in Nov. of the KSN 770. They seem pretty confidant it will happen and quoted me an installed price.

Masoud. If you go to www.deltaaviationllc you can download the STC flight manual supplement for the Ovation 3 which is the 310 hp. Within that manual there is no time restriction per say except pg 8 descriptive engine data. It states max continuous power is 310 bhp/2700 rpm & max recommended cruise power is 262 bhp/2550 rpm.

Do a search on this topic as it has been discussed a number of times but in a nutshell. The Screamin' Eagle is equivalent to the 310 HP Ovation 3 modified with the Midwest Mooney STC leased to the factory. Some of the initial mods were only to 280 HP. In addition the STC increases the fuel capacity to that of the Ovation as well as the gross weight to 3368 same as the Ovation. Since the Screamin' Eagle generally has less equipment they are lighter, faster, easier to maintain and have a higher useful load. As an example my useful load is 1122 lbs.

It will fit the same tray but the antenna is differant and as I recall there will be some wiring changes.

Mike Great job with the flight planing and the parrot training. Nice to know those guys are house broken! Well done on both accounts.

Well This years owner assist annual cost me just $700 including an oil change. I couldn't do the poll because the $1000 cost was higher than what I spent. I did put fine wire plugs and cam guard into the engine but I had bought those some time ago so I did not count them. It helps to have a low time airframe also.

Tom That is a great explanation on why the temps read high on these models. Thanks

I'd say your numbers are close to mine although you will want to try the Pixie hole for your baffles which helped me. Also your T/O fuel flow is to low. I can get close to 400 degrees initially on the Factory guage but immediately take action to reduce the temps. Also I find the Moritz gauges read higher than the G2 engine monitor. This,is particularly true on the EGT'S. if I belived the factory gauge the heads would have melted by now. This is the long way of saying get an engine monitor before you get overly concerned on the temps you describe. Of course if you have a engine monitor that is a differant story.

They did a good job for me. Another option that many use is Weber Aircraft an MSC in Lancaster Pa. I've used them also for both sales and service. They do an extensive air check as I understand it. Make a call to both.