M016576

Great questions- I’m curious about this too

Some context is probably required here. There is a big red line that surrounds military jet parking at joint use and Air Force bases. It essentially marks the restricted access area. There are security forces personnel that guard that red line 24/7 to ensure only approved personnel have access to the fighter jets and equipment. Crossing that line is a big no-no, unless you have specific access. A ground clearance alone is not considered “adequate” to meet the security standards.

Redacted.

Yep. Perfect fit.

Exactly. Brad absolutely hit the nail on the head! So here’s the problem as I see it... mooney doesn’t want, or have the resources to: A) modify the design aerodynamically. B ) and this is the big one... even if aerodynamic modifications aren’t required... have the money/resources to re-fly the test flights to certify to a greater weight/useful load/speeds/stall margin, etc. Im willing to bet they are probably lacking a test pilot. And certainly can’t afford to pay one off the street at this point, seeing as a NTPS education costs millions of dollars, and any military test pilot can walk into a 200-300K job at their leisure (which may not seem like that person is “choosing to earn”... but it’s quite the pay bump from government service as a fighter pilot (and/or test pilot for that matter...ask me how I know ). Final thought... my Missile has TKS, a J airframe, and 1015lbs useful on its current propeller. The *last thing* I’d like to do to it... a MT 3 bladed prop. I’d be the looking at over 1050 useful with an envelope that supports putting stuff wherever I feel like it and still being within CG... that’s not bad for a 1982 airplane that goes 180KTAS with TKS....

Dropped my plane off for the max upgrade a week ago... looking forward to seeing the new displays! Will post a report/review once they’ve been installed

I saw this video on Cirrus accident rates IRT the CaPS/BRS today- it’s an AVweb video. Very interesting- thought it maybe applies here.

^And this is why the Eagle and Screaming Eagle are in such high demand now, despite arriving to less than enthusiastic fan fair. That extra 200-300lbs of useful load is significant. And new airplane buyers seem to think so too (Cirrus sr22T gts has roughly that over a M20V)

I laugh every time I read this! :p

Love it!

I slipped my pure J all the time... and I damn near need to slip my Missile to get it to descend... and I’ve never had problems, even with the rudder fully depressed with 20-30 degrees angle of bank in.... that said, though.... I believe @donkaye has mentioned something about the long bodies having poor slip characteristics in the past. Something about wing airflow disrupting the horizontal stabilizer... But I could be mistaken..

Funny- seems like we have similar tastes. I’ve got a ‘08 E90 M3- the last of the NA M3 models... undersized pulleys, new induction kit and cat convert delete with flash... ~500hp..... love this car. Just like I love my mooney.... while BMW isn’t going anywhere soon... they certainly have their hands full competing with the Tesla, don’t they.

^totally agree here. And I think the M10 might have come close to “re-imagining” the M20J... but mooney just can’t seem to figure out either funding, or engineering to do so.

^Yes- exactly this

Yes- look at the list above I wrote. And it’s a pretty significant difference in useful load. the mooney looks nice inside. Like a mooney that’s had “the treatment.” the Cirrus has a more modern look/feel subjective, I know. grey is Cirrus, brown is mooney. again- I love the new mooney’s- so much so that I painted my Missile using the same scheme (changed the colors).... which.. if I remember correctly.. several people on the board made fun of!

While the cost between a nice C/E/F/J and a M is double or more (70-125K more)... the difference between a V and a J or M is less significant... a V costs 700K more than a J, and 600K more than a M. So for all intents and purposes- the difference between a J and a M for someone buying a V.. is kind of below the noise threshold (~ 15% of their acquisition cost on the V) (total bar napkin math)

This might sound like a cop-out... but I personally don’t see a difference between the two performance wise (if anything, I think the mooney is “higher performance” or at least on par with one another). But I’m biased- I love mooney’s... which means I *would be* a buyer into their niche market if I had the money. here are the reasons, why I think most people choose a Cirrus over a mooney, though (and realize that I don’t necessarily agree with them all, and many are quite subjective), but the market seems to agree- 1: more room. 2: more modern feel/look (the doors, carbon fiber construction, etc) 3: more ramp appeal 4: easier to get in and out of 5: airbags and BRS parachute/perceived safety 6: community/company support 7: more seats (5 vs 4.. despite if its practical or not) 8: useful load. so... all of those things are why I believe that more people choose a New Cirrus over a New Mooney. If Money were no object I would pick the mooney. But just for me because I love mooney’s in the way that Porsche Car Club members, or corvette car club members will always pick a Porsche or a ‘Vette... of course, if money were no object I’d also buy a TBM for my family trips and just keep the mooney for “fun”

PC24 has commercial application. Mooney’s don’t (well... at least not to the same level as a PC24). The M600’s do as well. Lets put it this way... most people (not all, but the vast majority) that buy M600’s, PC-12’s and PC-24’s are paying someone else to fly their planes for them. That’s a different market entirely. as for the Cirrus- its a better airplane for what most people with 800K to burn want to use it for. If the Mooney competed well/better, then it would sell better. But it doesn’t. Because the mooney, despite being a very nice plane (that I love), just doesn’t stand up to a new Cirrus for the vast majority of pilots looking in that price range. And I don’t think it’s a “marketing issue” by mooney. It’s a design issue. the market backs up that thought... that’s why Cirrus is outselling mooney 30 to 1. The new mooney’s are a niche airplane in a niche hobby. And I’m personally afraid that mooney will have to close its doors (again).

I’m not sure this is accurate. does an $800K M20V really offer “a lot more capability” than a $200K M20M? does it offer $700K more capability than a M20J? how about apples and oranges... does an 800K M20V offer more capability than a $150K Tesla? some... very few... would say “Yes.” But for the other 99.99999% of the worlds population, the answer is aResounding no. Which is why the factory is selling numbers <10/yr. dont get me wrong- the M20U/V’s are beautiful planes... but they really are an airplane built for an extremely niche market in a niche “hobby” area (GA).

Just think about this for a second.... the USB plug + install costs the same amount as an iPad. The “aviation panel mount” USB plug in... the thing that they give away with an iPad... COSTS THE SAME AS AN IPAD! if that’s not an aviation mark up... I don’t know what is. ....and people in the other thread are wondering why a new mooney costs 800K and you can’t build a J for 200K anymore. This is why.

Aero shell seems to be significantly more expensive than Phillips. And it’s just oil. I'm surprised people pay up for it.... but then again... seeing how heated debates get on this board over smaller things.. it shouldn’t surprise me.

$350 for a usb outlet! Hah! Plus install cost! “a fool and his money are soon to be parted” comes to mind.... just buy a PS engineering PMA450... that’s like getting a cutting edge audio panel for 500 bucks to go along with your usb plug!

Now this would be a crazy install.... aspen- -> EA100 (digital to analog converter) -> 71 (analog to digital converter) -> aerocruze. would be nice if BK thought about the possibility of a pure digital input (make it compatible with aspen, G5, etc for airdata without some sort of extra converter). We’ll see how robust their system design is, I’m sure, in time.

Glad to see you around! mine are 6 and 8... and we’re still loving the Missile... I think I can squeeze another 5-6 years out of the family airplane trips before I start having to leave someone behind.... but you never know- the useful load on the Missile is pretty amazing!

Yes. That is normal. My IO-550 has significantly lower idle oil pressure after a flight, than before. But still well within limits.