Bob

This year I completed training in a Cirrus and have 30hrs in it, not much, but enough to understand the plane. I see three main things that may contribute to a bad ending in a Cirrus. 1) They move along fast but also loose speed very fast. Approaching to land, I had to keep telling myself "nose down". 2) They fly very smooth, almost too smooth, so it is hard to really feel the plane. Its is very hard to feel speed changes. 3) Way too many checklists with way too many lines within each checklist. The Cirrus training drills in your head to use every checklist, always. The checklist workload is way too high! This is what I think happens very often. So the pilot is behind the plane because it is moving along pretty fast, goes to land, but attempts touchdown late and decides to go around. He starts climbing then shifts most of the focus on the panel and the balked landing checklist, while still behind the plane, it feels smooth but is loosing speed and the pilot turns downwind. We all know how it ends! I bet if the checklists were fewer and shorter by removing the common sense items, the workload would be reduced and fewer stall/spins would happen. Also if training instructed the pilot to climb out to 1000agl during a go-around it would make for better endings. I you have never flown a Cirrus, this is what I am taking about. The Cirrus POH is 516 pages long & for a normal landing, if you don't go-around has 12 checklists with 186 items to check off. List of all checklists: Preflight Walk-Around (86 items), Before Engine Start (6 items), Starting Engine (17 items), Before Taxiing (5 items), Before Takeoff (32 items), Takeoff (5 items), Climb (5 items), Cruise (5 items), Descend (6 items), Before Landing (5 items), Balked Landing (5 items), After Landing (6 items), Shutdown (8 items). In the crash on this thread, I bet the last checklist item that was checked off would give some answers. RIP!

Here is the supplement for the stand-by vacuum pump. May answer a couple questions? http://www.mooney.com/en/pdf/StbyVac_RevG.pdf

Cnoe- Thanks I missed that post last month. http://mooneyspace.com/topic/17243-suction-at-idle/#comment-247604

Thanks everyone for the ideas! New engine rpm is 720 and old engine was 700, so I am ruling out setup differences. Loogie, Good to know you are in the green at idle. This confirms that something is not proper. I did not think about the regulator before your post. I do still have my old pump if needed for testing or to use if needed while parts are ordered. i just had a thought, I wonder if vac lines were plugged or sealed off properly while it sat for the engine. Bugs, spiders or other contamination. Everyone has helped here, Thanks! I will report back on the cause in a couple days.

Part of the problem is, I did not fly my plane for 6 months when it was down for an engine replacement, so I am not in my normal scan & routine. In the past, I would check vacuum during the run-up, but don't remember if I ever checked it at idle. But on my last flight, the low vac dummy light cam on while at idle. This has not happened in the past, low voltage is on, but never low vac. The filters were replaced during the last annual, 30 hrs ago. From a past experience years ago, when the suction line to the main filter collapsed, it simulated a fully blocked off filter and using the back-up vac pump did not help. Yesterday the back-up pump had full suction.

I have a 80 M20K with a 3 yr/300hr since new vacuum pump and 15TT on the engine. Yesterday vacuum was reading low. Idle/700rpm: Very low reading, suction gauge reads 2.5 Idle/700rpm with standby vacuum: Read proper, suction gauge reads 5.0 1000rpm, standby vacuum off: Reading proper, suction 5.0 After my engine install, I did inspect hoses, clamps, etc. All looked good. Hoses are about 3 years old and replaced when new pump was installed. Is this a sign of a vacuum pump going bad? Before I take a look tomorrow, does anyone have any thoughts?

Price lowered to $300, includes shipping. Now priced lower that a rebuild!

Price is lowered to $200 shipped. That comes to half of retail plus shipping.

Sounds like the controller was having a bad day, then pacing the tower and complaining. Then the "gal" overheard him, then you called and she helped smooth it out for him and remove unknowns for you. DVT is beyond a high work load challenge. The 30 students in the air with translators (instructors) sure does push it to the next level for everyone. The upside is, if you fly into DVT a few times, you will be trained "strong" and everywhere else will be reduced workload, even OSH!

While my Mooney was down for a insurance related repair, I first looked for a rental Mooney and ran into a dead end. I ended up getting transition training for a Cirrus. It was a good short term solution. Simple transition from the Mooney! Now looking back, it served as a good temp replacement and It ended with me appreciating my Mooney when I got it back.

I have found, the higher you fly, less traffic and fewer frequency changes. A few years back I went Chicago to Phoenix with one fuel stop. They reported traffic one time.

I have a 8000BT and really like it. The nice thing is the options it offers. If I don't want music as I pilot the plane, I still enjoy the benefit for the passengers. Give them music and wake them on long final. You can direct the music just to them while you have it off for you. Most the time I like music, only since the auto mute settings allow you to not mute, only mute music during radio transmissions, or mute while using radio or when someone talks or coughs. Not sure of the 6000 vs the 8000, but here is the manual for the 6000 http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/PMA6000B_IM.pdf Also a note for the installation. My avionics guy wired the sound alert for traffic thru the ADF button and relabeled it. It is a nice feature to hit one button and turn the traffic voice off if you are tired of hearing it while in the pattern for example.

It is very unfortunate that way too many threads continue to get hijacked since it is never productive. If you all must continue, please start your own thread, or even better, just send a PM! The title is "HOW MY CFI DIED"! ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ Edited at the point of now 103 replies: So rather than getting the hint, some chose to fight back and continue to embarrass themselves. About 10% of the posts are on subject or helpful and 90% are attacking, off subject or just part of a pissing contest. VERY SAD! ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

I think Craig has already tried this, now for several years, to allow people to donate enough to not have ads. That has not worked! So if the ads do end up bother any member, JUST DONATE the $10 of pocket change. Operating costs need to be covered!

Very happy with Airpower! https://www.airpowerinsurance.com

Mark, Unfortunately way too many shops feel that they have an "open ticket". When asked to explain or detail their bill, the answer is usually very vague and they just smile while holding their hand out. Arrogance is the common element that I have found! Told that something will take a couple hours and then charged 12, a charge of 10 hrs for a 1.5 hr job and being charged a second time when a tech does not follow a mandatory service bulletin and messes things up are all things that I have witnessed too many times. Unfortunately greed from some shops is beyond destructive to GA!

I have a full set of 12- URHM38E Tempest Spark plugs for sale. This set came with my New Continental engine and have no need for 2 new sets. This is a set of 12. Only one has been opened. Spruce sells them for $30 each plus shipping. $260 plus shipping.

This Factory new Harzel Energizer starter came with my Continental Zero time engine last week. I removed it from the new engine since my starter was also new. This is not a rebuild! It is part # 646238 and is factory new and only has a few starts on it at the Continental factory for engine break in. It come off of a new TSIO360-LB1B engine but fits many others. Priced at about the cost of a rebuild and without an exchange/core required. I will sell it for $375 shipped in the US.

I am watching the links daily, just to see the "speed records".

For the last 6 months, while mi Mooney was down, I was flying a Cirrus. I did not feel any safer! When would it help? During a inflight breakup. In a Mooney, slim to none! Mid air crash- Maybe! Loss of control in IMC, etc- At this point the speed is way too high and wont end well with a chute. Every 10 years $$$$-NO THANKS! Remember, when you pull the chute, you no longer have control. Winds into a building, home, Yikes...windmill, ouch! NO THANKS for me!

Job well done! Hope all works out for you and your family! I just got over a major failure while stuck away from home and opened a thread to ask for a recommendation for an A&P in that area. Members from this board came forward and helped fast and a tech commuted to my downed location to get the job done. I am based near Chicago and will help where I can, just PM and tell me what you need. I can go see family at KIMT to help you get to or from.

I hope this thread promotes sharing of Aviation related Cyber Monday Deals! Here is my share. I have personally been satisfied with purchases from GPS City for several years now. Ram Mounts- 25% off and free shipping if over $25. http://www.gpscity.com/blackfriday/mounts

Thanks Craig, for the site, your donated time, hard work & for everything!

If dry ice could help me remove dents, I would have been a long term buyer for the last 20 years. With the ball and magnet idea, How are you going to get the steel ball in the aileron? The only holes are tiny drain holes. 601RX, I did talk to the owner from http://www.fluxtronic.com/index.php about 10 years ago. The machine when I got a quote was about 300K. Basically it is very interesting. You place the tool on the outside skin, it is energized and forms a magnetic field under the panel, the power is shut off and the field collapses. This causes a impact or push from underneath the skin and shrinks the dent. The process works poorly on steel panels, due to its magnetism pulling the energy into the steel rather than under the panel. Their process actually favors aluminum vs steel panels due to aluminum having poor magnetic properties. I believe they may have some sort of traveling demo and service schedule. It may be good to talk to them. Steve, it looks like you are down to 3 options to remove the hail damage. Re-skin, filler or the electromagnetic dent puller.

I have specialized in paintless hail repair, on cars for the last 20 years. Dry ice, suction cups, let is heat up in the sun then putting cold water on it, the infomercial ding king tool and heat guns are all MYTHS! Please do not try to push the dents out yourself, you will mess them up! The problem with paintless dent repair (PDR) on airplanes is the access. The thinnest panels on the Mooney are the ailerons and there is no way to get a tool in them and also have proper leverage. When hail hits a panel, it stretches the material. The only way to remove it is by shrinking the aluminum. This is done by a whole bunch of very small pushes. In order to push the dents, a pivot point is needed and unfortunately in a aileron for example, that pivot point would be the lower skin. So if you can get a PDR rod in the small holes, you will be pushing out the dents on the top and also doing damage underneath the panel. FYI- I do hail repair for a living and I have light hail damage on some of my control surfaces on my own plane.