Bob

The FBO/Jet Center is handling it on a very professional level and their insurance is working promptly to cover the costs related to their negligence. I hope things stay smooth till my plane is returned to service. The A&P that caused the issue, has stated that he did not start the engine after the repair. So no checking for leaks, vacuum, electrical short or proper operation of the overhauled starter adapter or new starter. Yes it needs an engine. I also now see the true benefit of the JPI 830 engine monitor that I installed a few years back. The JPI warned me of the problem before I departed. Thanks to JPI!

Well here is the short version of a very long story, since it is hard to type while crying. I just completed a 30K annual with gear overhaul, engine top and installation of a new MT Propeller. Unfortunately my aircraft was released with a kickback problem. During the first 12 hours, I experienced kickback about every 3rd start. While discussing this with the shop, they stated that the cause is from the light weight prop. Mt Propeller & Continental state that it is a ignition related issue due to ignition timing being too advanced during startup. Jump forward 12.6 hrs and I have a kickback and break the starter adapter. The A&P at Cleveland Jet Center removes and reinstalled the overhauled adapter. I drive 7 hrs to Cleveland, balance my tab, complete my preflight, startup, running preflight and taxied to depart 6 at CGF. During taxi I lost oil pressure, moved from taxiway and shutdown. I removed the upper cowl and found the cause quickly to be a oil line that was not reconnected to the starter adapter. Yep, they forgot to reconnect the oil line but signed the plane off as airworthy. I added 6 qts of oil and read 6.5 on the dipstick. Restarted engine, monitored proper oil pressure and cycled the prop about 12-15 times before prop responded. The next day a A&P from another airport inspected the engine, remove the oil filter, cut it open, saw a lot of metal and stated that it was not airworthy. But I saved my good luck for what is important. I did not depart into 600 overcast with 1/2 qt of oil and an open oil line. Yes, I will fly again! I have learned a few things from this experience so far. 1) My new personal minimum requires a VFR flight after ANY maintenance. 2) After a aircraft is signed off as returned to service & airworthy, it does not guarantee that it's airworthy. 3) Vintage motorcycles are not the only mechanical things that "mark their turf". 4) In aviation, 30K does not stand for 30,000 service. 5) I will never own a plane without a modern engine monitor. This is what I feel warned me and kept me on the ground. So looks like I am down for a few months.

Let's hope they don't rape you for 8 hours for the labor. Yep, that's what I paid. 8 hours comes to 30 minutes per nut or bolt and 30 min to install upper cowl. (they started the job with the cowl removed) I am bad in math, but calculate 5 bolts for adapter, 1 oil line, 4 air pump nuts, 2 starter nuts and 1 positive starter cable. I think they did the washers under the same hardware for free, but not sure. Another very, very long story! But if you are broken and stuck, some feel it is a ticket to steal. The problem is, greed costs them more than the "big hit" in the long run. But that's the good part, additional post to follow. I need to first compose myself!

GeorgePerry, Lets chat tonight. Just went thru this. It could be complicated or EZ. I will share my research and sources. I'll send you my # in a PM.

I am in need of a recommendation to do some work on my M20K, in the Cleveland area. Any Mooney experts or good experiences in the area? Your help is appreciated!

It is possible that it was 2 instruction flights. A lot of energy between instructor and student in both planes? Still hard to understand with 4 sets of eyes between both planes. Glad they were on the ground!

Again many opinions on starters. One thing everyone agrees on is get rid of the Iskra! I called the guy that does my mags, when he heard the word Iskra, he started talking rough and with anger in his voice. He said to go with Prestolite. I did call sky-tec and talked to a tec rather than a sales person. He said the CS3T has a long history of being strong with no issues on the TSIO360, but would not recommend it on larger Continentals. Looks like I now have a clear direction. I am having Poplar Grove overhaul my adapter. They are known for engines and just did my Top Overhaul. The damaged part should be delivered to them today, all parts are in stock to overhaul and they are doing a 1.5 day turn around for me. I trust their machining skills and I keep my own part, not an exchange. If anything is in question, I can drive over and look at the problem. They also recomended the Sky-Tec, so I will go it to stay with their recommendation. Sounds like the best solution this time. Thanks again for all the info. It has helped me greatly!

Thanks for all that helped so far. And thanks Mark for the generous offer for a ride. I think the best thing is to get the adapter out today and shipped out for overhaul. I will overhaul adapter and also replace starter. I have a Iskra starter with 15 yrs on it. Any feedback on Sky Tec starters? After I get it home I will get into the kickback problem. Will looking into impulse couplers, mag timing and other possible causes.

Well it has been a very long road the last few months. I though I was on the "home stretch", but guess not. Had an annual with a list of repairs, top overhaul with MT prop installation a couple weeks ago. Had several flight since without any issues, noises or problems. Then... Saturday, during startup, got a kickback and starter won't turn engine. Ended up leaving plane in Cleveland (KCGF) and renting a car to drive 7 hrs home. I hope the mechanic can remove the starter adapter tomorrow and diagnose the failure so we can know if it can be repaired or requires a full overhaul. During research I have found a couple pieces of information: Some say the light weight MT causes problems. I am having a hard time believing this since the MT is only 9 lb. lighter than a factory 2 blade McCauley. Their is a new and old style starter adapter. Two different groups that favor one over the other. Light weight starters take out adapters. I have a stock TCM starter Timing and magneto impulse coupler could cause kickback and damage. Starter issues can cause starter adapter damage. I have several issues and key problems = $$$$ ( I don't have much left after the recent 30K in repairs) 1) I am in a rental car with a daily cost. 2) The plane is broke/stuck quite a distance away. 3) Should I have the starter adapter repaired or replaced with a reman unit? I will know more after removal and inspection. Parts sources are appreciated. 4) Should I do a "quick" repair, like a used part or replace broken parts only to start it and get the plane home to fix proper for long term. I only need one start? 5) What is the cause of the kickback? something caused the kickback, causing the adapter damage. I could use any help that anyone has to offer. Thanks!

Yes Parker, FedEx is the way to go. My MT prop went from Germany to installed in Illinois in 3 days. No damage & not lost! Ok, I am cured, no more USPS!

I personally delivered the package to the post office on Saturday. They did not do a first scan or any other scans to show traveling progress. My gut says it vanished from my own post office. Someone saw the insured value and wanted it.

Decided to help another Mooney driver out by lending my gear donut tools out for the cost of shipping. Well, looks like USPS just lost them. NICE!

My 231 has 930lb useful load with nice avionics, MT Prop, built in O2, no TKS, no speed brakes. The one you are looking at seams very low. I would look close at the W&B from new to current to find an error.

As I was reading this thread, I was having flashbacks. My simular experience had me 10 hrs away from my family for the 4th weekend. In my situation the cause was the rubber shifted inside of the valve stem cap. I soaped down the tire to find leaks but none found. The tire only became flat when the cap was placed on the valve stem. May be good for everyone to keep this thread on your mind to help you in the future.

The tight turns like the top of the "i's" were a little tougher than the rest. That is why I had a block altitude. Coming up on a 180, I climbed to really slow down and then did a very steep turn. Some other things that I did not expect. I had to make constant waypoint adjustments. If I overshot the left turn, going North for the right side of the "0", I adjusted all the right side waypoints, to keep the line straight. This was also important when I was off a little and was going twice over the same line, like the bottom of the "O". If I did not move the waypoints, I did not know where my first track was to shoot for the second time over the same line. The "IS" was the toughest! The beginning of the "M" had a full circle like the dot of the "O". Since my turn was real time and ATC's log timing was longer than my turn, it missed the right side of the circle. I did a full circle turn around DBQ. I did think about this while flying, but had no way of knowing if I was good or not. I think this may have helped me with the tip of the "I's" and "C". All just tips to raise the bar next time. I have no plan in the near future to do any more, but I am thinking that a "Juliana is 16" for my daughter in 4 years may be a nice add to her Mom's. Shoot, I am already looking at tight turns! Looks like many like the idea and I hope we see many more. OK, who is up next?

I think if it is done in the right area and planned away from approaches and high work load times, it "mixes it up" for the controllers. At some points, the controller seamed do get a kick out of it and enjoy the activity and at the end, it got busy and closer to Chicago and I could feel the extra workload. The key is to ask, thank and help by offering general revised area updates, etc. I hope they allow others to do it. I got the idea from Boeing a few years back, but they used actual IFR waypoints, not user defined. If Hank or anyone else plans a similar flight, please keep me in the loop, glad to offer help!

I got a trial version of map plotting software from expertgps.com, drew out what I wanted to say, determined what waypoints I wanted on the drawn line and exported waypoints. Next step was to use Excel to adjust the format to work with Foreflight. Last step was to import the 300 waypoints into Foreflight as user waypoints. I did talk to Foreflight tech support for assistance. They were very helpful and great as always! I contacted Chicago center prior and talked to them about ideal altitudes and options. I did file IFR so I knew it would show up on Flight aware. The flight plan was simple with only 10 actual waypoints to give the controllers waypoints to send me to a general direction in their system. I am not sure if it helped or not? I opened up my flight plan while in the air and asked them to review remarks. Some had questions or requests. "What are you writing Mooney?" "Report when going East of....." "Can you stay at 9000 for a few minutes for traffic?" The entire flight was between Rockford Approach and Chicago Center so minimal frequency changes helped. If I went up to 12K, I would have been with one Center the whole time. My flight plan remarks were: gps sky writing flight. Requesting pilot self vectoring with altitude block of 8000-10000ft. Flight area is South of line KJVL to KDBQ and North of location from 12 miles South of DBQ to C77. Pilot consulted ZAU prior. Thanks for your help! I know my process can be easily improved upon, but it worked on this flight. The request for a block altitude was due to the sharp turns in a few areas. I wanted to climb and scrub off speed without pulling back power, since this was also a break-in flight for a top overhaul. 1hr into the flight, I asked myself "Bob, what the heck are you doing, this was a dumb idea" But all went well, just high work load for a solo flight. If anyone tries a similar flight, please message me. I would be glad to help!

Yesterday I made my first attempt at gps sky writing. I sent my wife a message so she could watch it come together thru the day. All went well. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N231PZ

Look under the cowl and check the hose between the filter and directional gyro. Good chances it has collapsed.

I may have some. More info or a pic would help!

Sounds like they need to regulate the people making them. Require the person building them to limit altitude, etc. Because, as we know, the operators think UAV's are just toys.

I do not know anything about this company, but ran across them while doing my own research. May want to talk to them? propellerpartsmarket.com

Not sure what your prop is worth but a current cost on a McCauley 3 blade overhaul is closer to $3000. A prop that needs an overhaul, I would never buy due to the expensive unknowns. You may be buying a prop that needs a couple blades or a hub (about5K)? I would think that your prop would have some good value due to blade spec sheets from the recent overhaul and also the low time. A new McCauley is about 13K.

Way too much history of: loss of power, breaking of rules and crashes with the last name of Pressley. Glad all survived this time!

My wife sleeps in the back seat. I think I need to get my daughter some formal instruction since she is in the co-pilot seat and tunes the radio and asks me about the gear before I have to lower it. Thanks for this thread, I will commit to 5 hrs of flight lessons for my daughter this year! Before I forget, her first yoke time was departing OSH last year.