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My knowledge is way inadequate to say but the new Garmin Aera 760 may do most or all of this with a GDL 52R. I’m looking into it. I don’t like relying on the iPad for a number of reasons.

I have a CYA 100 ready to install. I made a bespoke plastic mount and housing that zip ties onto the center bar just below the compass. Easy to make with scrap plastic and a disc sander. Super inconspicuous but easy to see just inches from the aim point. And as mentioned very inexpensive.

Call Mark at Top Gun Stockton. He will be honest about what he is willing to tell you. If I were in the market for something in this price range with this level of equipment I’d be interested. I’d consider a JPI 830 and a back up AI right away, with other fun improvements if and when you can afford them.

My jump to the mooney with no retract time and just over 300 hours total @ 62 years old resulted in insurance costs of $2200 including $120k in hull coverage through Justin Wulf. I did put in a Voice Alert 2040 because I am highly fallible. Cost about 1 AMU all in. Provides reassurance.....that plane of Bob Belville’s looks like a beauty you are a lucky man nice it is in good caring hands.

May reach this decision soon and I will probably send the engine to Jewell for overhaul. My MSC wants a factory OH, so we are conflicted. Just my relatively amateur opinion.

That would be easy to make out of plastic.

I don’t know enough to speak authoritatively but a good inexpensive path may be the new Garmin Aera 760.

Well hot darn! I'm glad to hear both types of charts can be used. (Not that it matters to me yet because I just got in a few IFR sessions in the "before time", although most people I know seem to like the Jeppesen charts best). It makes the idea of the 760 really attractive, given that I already have a GDL 52R, which will drive four (count 'em) devices. This can mean something similar to an unofficial GTN 750 on the yoke, with the Aera 660 still in the panel for traffic, weather, or whatever. I always carry two iPads and do use them, but I cannot find an acceptable place to mount them, and have trouble with the glare and the heat problem. Thanks for posting this Oscar. Great information!

I get all of the good tools and tricks we use, aim points, spot in the windscreen, that looks about right, all good techniques. But, I really think the way this part of landing is taught is less than ideal. Think about it. The above diagram says fly downwind "alongside the runway". But how far away from it? I was taught 1/2 mile. If we turn base at the 45 degree point, and end up at, say, 400' when we turn final just as an example, we will be 1/2 mile from the threshold. We need to be 5800' from it for a 4 degree glide slope. So we end up more than twice as high as we want to be. Bad habits formed from this flawed concept have hampered my landings for years. I'm sure most of us turn to final farther out than 1/2 mile, and I've started to fly downwind as much as 3/4 mile from the runway, and then turn base at more like 60 degrees, so as to end up turning base closer to a point where I am intersecting a glide slope of 3 or 4 degrees. And the experiments continue! I realize it sounds like I am obsessing about this. I know adjusting for these variables is a big part of the fun of flying. And as crazy as it sounds I am just now getting tired enough of fighting to lose altitude on final to get low enough that I am finally seriously analyzing the subject, instead of trying to fix the problem by feel and experience. The Mooney is more demanding that other planes, and is less tolerant of slop. A Cessna will drop if you want it to. The Mooney wants to fly. That's why we have them. But, I have taken a vow to quit the carrier landings. They are hard on my nerves. Thanks again everyone!

Appreciate the report. Are the Jeppesen charts really that much better than the ones available from Garmin?

This is all very interesting and informative to me. I had never thought about using the FAF, for example, to better teach myself to see the glide path. (I do that with PAPI lights of course but kind of consider it cheating). It a great idea and I'm going to try it. I started IFR training right before the covid hit, but I did learn enough to enable me to used approach plates to work on this I think. That in combination with the other tips will mean a lot of methods to practice, and combine to dial in a system that gives me consistency. Here is something else interesting: I got curious about this, so I did the trigonometry, and then went to Google Earth and Fore Flight 3D and looked up some out of the way airports I've landed at, and where I tended to turn base based on eyeballing. I realize I been flying VFR approaches too high forever! I was initially taught to turn base in a 172 at 400 ft agl 1/2 mile from the runway. What the..... For anyone interested, I found the tangent for 3 degrees is .052, and for 4 degrees it's .069, unless I'm bad at math. So to figure out how far from the runway I should be for a given glide path, I divided my relative altitude at the point where I turn base by one of those numbers. Based on landmarks, I seem to always be turning too early and/or too high. And I do realize 3 degrees is really shallow for a light GA plane. I might find higher looks and feels better. But first, I need to figure out how to know where the heck I am.

I apologize for not making the question clearer. Lots of good tips here and material for practice. So much good information is available on this forum, can’t put a price on it.

I suspect I was too sparse in the information I provided. Here I am talking about VFR approaches with no PAPI lights, ILS or anything like that. Just my eyes, the airplane, and the threshold. Now, I fix the aim point in the windscreen where I think it looks like 3 degrees, from limited experience. Also, it occurs to me I meant attitude indicator, not HSI (duh). So carusoam, you answered that question, the AI won't tell me if I am flying a 3 degree slope, because the pitch is too variable. I suspected as much. Otherwise we would have all been taught that! And, I note that in Don Kaye's landing video, his VSI does show about 400 fpm most of the time. Although he's in a Bravo. 300ft agl per nm is a good rule of thumb tip, that does translate to about a 1:20 slope. And backing into vertical speed based on ground speed * 5 is also a good tip. I will try those things to help with landing at some of the out of the way strips I am exploring now that the airport restaurants are still closed. I am trying to get this dialed in to smooth out landings and so I don't have to keep wondering if I am high or low. Thanks everyone for the suggestions!

Excellent suggestion Andy, never thought of that. Thanks.

I've always been told that identifying a 3 degree glide slope, absent IFR instrument help or lights, just has to be done based on experience. Any other tricks? In particular, if I am on final, full flaps at 70 knots in a J model for example, and the HSI shows 3 degrees, am I on a 3 degree glide slope? I gather that would mean the plane is flying straight down the glide slope line and is not pitched up any to maintain the 70 knot approach speed. If this is true, seems like it would be a fairly good cross-reference. Any thoughts or tips? Thanks!

Jet Shades look pretty nice, but I have not yet contacted them to see about the practically and cost of having them made for the Mooney. My guess is they will be fairly expensive. Maybe some of us with similar enough models could split the cost of the "tooling".

Thanks for the report Oscar! I’m going to have one wired up in a month or so when the shutdown requirements are loosened up.

Alas, I have struggled with this forever. I have modified a Garmin mount so it will fit way back in the yoke and hold the new Garmin 760 without blocking anything. I Keep the iPad against my left hip and pull it out and set it on the knee board as needed. Less than ideal but the best I will accept.

Two of us are looking for a 3rd participant in co-ownership of this great aircraft. Check Controller.com under Mooney M20J tail number N10194 for complete information and photos. Email bradinc@astound.net or call 510 377 0129 for additional information or to discuss. Thanks! Steve Mink

I had very good luck with Don Valentine.

I have an Aera 660 on the yoke and will probably upgrade to the 760, in part because the 660 is already hardwired to a GDL 52R. The 760 is just a little smaller than a mini iPad and will sit far back in the yoke in portrait without blocking anything in my modified mount. I always carry two iPads and always will, but the damn things shut off from heat all the time and glare is a real problem. I am still waiting to find out exactly what the 760 will and will not do but it looks like it provides much of the functionality of a GTN 750 at a fraction of the price. Hopefully there will be more about this device discussed on this forum.

I just got a crate that fit and limited the dogs to ones that fit in the crate.

Thanks very much David. That sounds easy enough!

I can't help gilding the lily a little since I am flying less and saving so much gas money. I want to get sheepskins for the front seats, and I don't want to put the arm rest back after I install them. To remove the arm rest, it looks like I just take the screws out of the back panel of the seat, and that'll get me to the fastener that holds the thing on. Is that correct? Any danger zones or pitfalls? Any help will be appreciated!

I think the "Diamondshare" model is hazardous from a liability perspective when done by us average folk. And in any event, you are on the hook for all unscheduled maintenance. That's the killer. Ask me how I know. If you lose the engine, for example, the non-equity partners are not obligated to help beyond what they have contributed for reserves. On the other hand, as was alluded to above, there is no rule that a true equity partnership has to be in equal ownership percentage amounts, or that the buy-in be equal. Just be sure that everyone involved is an actual owner (I prefer LLC's), and is on the hook for equal amounts of the fixed expenses and unscheduled maintenance (and unscheduled maintenance expenses can be apportioned based on hours flown). I think this is dicey stuff. If we have enough assets to fly airplanes, we have enough assets to protect them carefully. Scott Williams Esq Camarillo CA. This is not a job for backyard lawyers.