Schllc

It is, I saw it on TAP and reposted here

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20M+BRAVO&listing_id=2394200&s-type=aircraft I flew this plane a week ago, if I was looking for a bravo it would be at the top of my list. the owner is the kinda guy you want to buy from. no shortcuts, no excuses. Solid plane.

It’s difficult to wrap you arms around the differences in airplanes as a newbie. The vernacular is different, things aren’t described consistently, and there are seldom any two airplanes alike. Hangar talk is the biggest challenge. People love to repeat things they heard second, third or fourth hand, with authority. Talk to people who actually own or owned the models you are considering. After I had looked for awhile and had better defined my mission, It occurred to me that I should look for the safest plane I could afford to own. I decided I wanted a late model Mooney and bought my 2005 ovation two weeks before my ppl and flew it through my ifr. I probably logged 40+ hours of dual with at least 6 different instructors and twice as many safety pilots, in this time period. I believe this made me extremely comfortable and proficient in my airplane. I also happen to disagree very strenuously with those who say any plane is a bad choice for your first plane. It isn’t about which plane you choose, but how you approach learning. Military pilots are in aerobatic turboprops immediately and their success rate is very high They are also steeped in training. I agree it’s an emotional purchase. It’s a large discretionary purchase that is very expensive to own, and if you don’t feel warm and fuzzy when you see it, you will resent the checks you have to write to maintain it. In my experience, the insurance was more expensive until I got my ifr, but in the grand scheme of what it costs it was negligible. (If you are spending 200-300k on a plane, $600 a month to hangar, 15k+ in training to get a license, etc etc... is 3k extra in insurance really a problem?) Annuals have not been anywhere near 10k for any of the five ovations, acclaims, or ultra acclaims I’ve owned. Only one was expensive, but it was because I needed to have a turbo changed, and I opted for a new one because of lead times. I find the Mooney to be the most comfortable ergonomically. Ive made seven hour flights, and the only discomfort was bladder induced. I have about 30 hours in a 182 and 180. The Cessna is a well made plane, but uncomfortable, slow and a gas hog. I have several hours in an sr20 and double those in a late model sr22. I don’t care at all for the side stick, really dislike the look of the plane and found it to be louder inside than the Mooney. They are also slower and burn more fuel, and definitely less comfortable for me. Lastly, I started my process of shopping with a partner, but ended up going it alone and am very glad that I did. I don’t want to wonder what was done in my plane by the last guy who flew. It’s about safety for me and if I couldn’t afford, or didn’t want to shoulder the burden alone, I wouldn’t own a plane. I am extremely particular, methodical and anal and I wouldn’t want to share. Plenty of people do, and it appears to work well for them. If you don’t mind people flying your plane, having to reconfigure everything every time you get in, and aren’t bothered by the question of whether the last guy ran it hot, or too lean, or maybe landed hard etc etc, then you will probably have success sharing as well I have a hard time seeing myself flying anything else, I love my Mooney. if you buy one, you will likely become a mooniac as well.

It’s obviously personal preference, but the Mooney is a more supine than erect position, I would describe it like the position of reading in bed. I find this much more comfortable than a chair. I’m 6’ 180lbs and I have done almost seven hours and no real problems with comfort in my Mooney. Meanwhile, 1+ hours in a 172 and I’m counting the minutes until we land. If you’re more comfortable in a chair vs a recliner, then you will probably never be as comfortable in a Mooney as other planes. That being said, I’m not sure any person could satisfactorily answer this question for someone else.

868#

For those interested I would be happy to discuss what I saw. I think the plane was about as clean as they come for a 17yr old bird. The interior and exterior are truly a solid 9 and I am as picky as they come. my offer was predicated on the fact that I would not use the plane without an IRAN, which is a gamble. Could be 20, could be 70. Who knows....

He actually told me that it was “sold” the evening after I looked at it when I provided my offer. He claimed he got 260. I just don’t understand what they think they gain by not being honest. I’m going to die naive....

I’ve owned an ultra acclaim, two other single door acclaims and two regular ovations. I personally, would not pay the delta that exists between an ultra and a one door Mooney again. The ultras have some issues that are probably not huge in the grand scheme of things but we’re still very frustrating and expensive. They were also heavier, and the second door is overrated, but the larger door is nice. The panel layout is much better as are some of the switch locations, and the fit and finish of the ultra’s is truly beautiful. The NXI was a great upgrade but not 200k worth. I went from a two door back to one and don’t even notice it. One less door to leak and make noise. I don’t know that I would suggest avoiding an ultra. It’s just that after owning one, I believe Mooney should have spent the money and effort to make one door larger and increase the useful load instead of all that effort and money for a heavier plane and two doors. But what do I know...

It appears to have lived most of its life in Georgia and does not appear to have been left outside for any significant period of time. the paint and interior are in excellent condition. The only dings if you’d want to be picky is it still has the Moritz (sp?) gauge set, the unknowns of an engine with less than 30 hours over the last seven years, and probably some latent maintenance on systems that just haven’t been exercised much less used. In. other words, nothing to prevent a buyer from taking on, at the right price of course. When someone isn’t forthright with one question, it makes the rest very suspect. At least to me it does, however to each their own....

No, it was near Atlanta. Not a dry climate there either. Hot and humid. It was the subterfuge and lack of candor that turned me off.

Out of annual for the last five years. And a few times in the middle if I’m not mistaken. It is now current... I looked at it, in person. It looks to be in very good condition, but the new owner has not, and is not flying it. It was purchased at a bank auction a few months ago. My concern is the engine of course. I don’t believe problems as a result of sitting show up immediately all the time, and given the asking price, it should have a better history. The owner is a broker, and claimed not to own the plane but it’s registered in an LLC the broker owns. Claims it’s flown 9 hours, but flight aware only shows one flight and it’s inside a class bravo airspace. I didn’t appreciate being lied to... caveat emptor

Google the tail number, that one broke a speed record somewhere.

My acclaim, type s prop, no ac, no fiki, 965#. I owned another with ac that was 912#. and an ultra with ac that was 895#

This axiom isn’t quite as true in aviation, as it is in most markets. There is an element of captive market present in almost all aircraft related transactions, be it a manufacturer, vendor or mechanic. You just don’t have a lot of options, and the market adapts to that whether it’s good for customers or not. I recently had a commitment to have something done in three days. This was confirmed prior to flying to the location. Six weeks later it was completed. I was told during this time that I was in line and they can’t bump me ahead of others. Given the situation moving the plane wasn’t an option. I don’t think the shop is a bad shop, they just know once the nut is cracked you can’t do anything so they behave accordingly. This attitude is more prevalent than not in my experience. To be fair, I don’t think it’s intentional or predatory, it just is what it is... Garmin is part of this culture, they didn’t create it, it’s the fault of the FAA for not being able to adjust with technology. The bureaucracy is so large and inordinately complex it stifles any real innovation and progress. After this lawsuit against the warbirds organization in FL, it would appear the FAA would prefer small GA not even exist. If people wanted to fix the problem they would go to the source, which isn’t manufacturers or vendors or shops. The only way to really fix it is competition, which means the market has to open. Don’t you ever wonder why our engines are 1930’s technology?

Im pretty sure that the logbook in ForeFlight is not contingent upon a membership. I started with a paper log and when I switched to ForeFlight it and had too many entries to do in one sitting so I used photos which are stored in ForeFlight and entered in a few at a time until I had it all. I do not use the auto log feature, because it really drains the battery and doesn’t always start and stop the way I would prefer . I can’t imagine trying to look through paper logs to find things after several hundred hours or a few years of entires but it’s really easy to find in ForeFlight. you can instantly find specific entries, trips to specific locations etc, it’s very easy to query. If you have endorsements or signed log entries in paper, you should probably keep the paper entries for backup, but any new entries can signed the same way a paper one is, or if you forget can be done via email. It’s really convenient and I would highly recommend.

I used a knife point on mine and flew for years without issues. the material for mine was fabric backed leather. I don’t think running will be an issue if yours are made the same. aerosheep sold me mine.

I’ve landed at both in a 180, little over a year ago. as far as grass strips go, both were pretty nice, but I wouldn’t attempt it in my Mooney. Between prop clearance and gear doors, I don’t believe the odds are worth it. This is an approach at Johnson’s creek C3ED6BC9-3C4D-4C4D-AE75-A82D8758223E.MOV

There was never a restriction of running on the ground that I’m aware of. there were several that had a limitation where it couldn’t be used on takeoff, but that can be rectified easily.

Sounds like it just boils down to risk. Personally, I’d like to avoid losing an engine in the air, and while that isn’t guaranteed, even with a new engine, the odds are much better you will, flying around on that one. But you know what M Twain said about statistics. “There are lies, damn lies, and statistics”. That being said, if everyone here detailed their last five flights publicly, I bet there would be a whole lot of comments about what each should or shouldn’t do. Or at a minimum, what they would have done differently. If you feel like it’s a worthy risk to take off in a plane 16 years out of annual with an engine that hasn’t run for 10 years, (not sure how you fly around in the pattern legally for 6 years out of annual), that’s up to you. My experience is that someone who would do what’s been done to that plane, wouldn’t likely be the kind of person to do good maintenance and practices PRIOR to this result. Personally, I would never intentionally buy such a sophisticated piece of machinery from this personality type. But I am also anal retentive to a flaw. I’d feel safe in saying you would be in the small minority of people who would.... But it’s your decision... I would very much like to be proven wrong! ”Hey, watch this! Hold my beer”

I fly pretty frequently. Uncontrolled fields are not my preference. not bc of atc direction , its bc people more often than not, don’t follow good etiquette, much less the rules. I won’t refuse to my go somewhere if it’s not controlled but I prefer the safety. I’ve had more than one bad experience at uncontrolled spaces. If you prefer them, more power to you.

I only “enter a pattern” once in a blue moon. Where I live atc loves to dive bomb me into the airports, and I seldom if ever fly vfr so I don’t even really know how to answer that question. I prefer to be around or ideally 90knots at 3 miles away from touch down. this almost always allows me the last 1000’ descent without picking up speed.

Aviation is all about trade offs, and what’s worth something to one person doesn’t carry the same value to others. I have no bravo experience, but know enough bravo owners who love their plane to understand its attractions. I have hundreds of hours in two ovations and two acclaims, and an ultra acclaim. I would be ok with an ovation but I wouldn’t want to fly without my turbo. Understand the chatter for what it is, others opinions. Then buy what you want, and the chances are you will love it. (as long as it’s a Mooney that is, if you get something else, caveat emptor)

You’re right, an acclaim probably doesn’t start out climbing an ovation with 310hp until after 500’, but it doesn’t take until 5000’ for sure. That is, unless you have one of those magic ovations that I keep reading about, you know, the ones that will climb at 2000fpm then cruise at 196ktas on 11.5gph. I wasn’t fortunate enough for either of my ovations to be magical, I never saw those numbers.

Actually max MP is about 33.5”, max cruise is 30.5”. I usually fly 26.5” at 2500rpm.

205-210 ktas rich of peak. about 19.8gph 193-198 ktas lop about 16.3gph this is full gross, after a 1100-1400fpm climb burning 33gph. an ovation leaps off the ground and easily out climbs the acclaim until about 500’, then the acclaim is in a class of its own. someone else said earlier, once you get a turbo it’s hard to go back. that is very much the case for me, I sold an acclaim and got an ovation, and sold that to go back to an acclaim. I bought a plane to go fast, the only way I could sell my Mooney is if I can afford something faster. I have 950# UL, and a 5ish hour range running high speed lop, and 6+ hours running 65% power. That is more than adequate for me.