glafaille

It's the FAA lawyers I'm trying to avoid! They write this stuff and expect us to figure it out or disregard it at our peril. The unintended consequences of this mandate are enormous.

The corporate aircraft I fly was not offered with ADS-B, therefore we must add it as part of an STC. I believe any relief that may be available would be part of the STC documentation and not the MEL. Maybe it could be added to the MEL, however the company that handles our MEL doesn't yet have any ADS-B equipped aircraft of our type in their database. They did say however, that if we added it to our MEL, we would have to comply with 91.225. I have yet to talk to anyone at all that can say for certain that we would be legal to launch with an inoperative ADS-B system under any circumstances. However, I have heard that a big iron freight hauler has cancelled a number of flights due to malfunctioning ADS-B equipment. I have also heard that several airlines have requested and received waivers to allow them to operate well past 2020 without installing in all of their aircraft. Mighty interesting.

As I read 91.225(g), the only relief you get is to continue your flight or series of flights to your ultimate destination and/or to fly the aircraft somewhere to get the ADS-B system repaired. Pretty cut and dried. Either you fall into one of those two exceptions or you don't fly or even taxi. As to the intent of all this to be enforced only post 2020, I received an email from AOPA several months ago warning members that the FAA was currently investigating and threatening enforcement against people that HAD ADS-B installed but the equipment was not functioning properly. The AOPA suggested that anyone receiving any inquiry from the FAA concerning their ADS-B system, contact the AOPA legal defense department before responding. Here we are 3 years out and it seems the FAA is already taking a hard line. (Navworks another example?) I believe that to stay out of trouble with the FAA you should first, avoid installing the equipment unless your operation absolutely demands it. Second, if you have it installed, don't fly or even taxi across the airport unless you are certain it's on and operating. And third, contact the AOPA legal defense folks if you get a friendly letter from your FSDO. I am not encouraged by these events and will not be standing in line to install in my aircraft. I think I can survive by avoiding Class A, B and C airspace, as well as staying below 10,000 ft after 2020.

This part of 91.213 may be a problem: (2) The inoperative instruments and equipment are not— (iii) Required by §91.205 or any other rule of this part for the specific kind of flight operation being conducted; As ADS-B is required in 91.225 to be on at all times it seems that this section of 91.213 does not provide relief.

FAR 91.213 pertains to operations with inoperative equipment under an approved MEL. Do you have an approved MEL for your aircraft? Does it allow you to fly with an inoperative ADS-B out system? I doubt it. I do have sn approved MEL for the aircraft I fly professionally, and it gives no allowance for operations without ADS-B if installed. Furthermore, I have asked the FAA about this issue and have not yet been able to find anyone that knows the answer. The company that writes our MEL doesn't know either, but they do say that when they add ADS-B, the addition will have to comply with 91.225 and 91.227. The bottom line is that I don't think 91.213 allows you to deviate from 91.225 and 91.227. The ADS-B system must be working at ALL times. Perhaps someone else can get better info from the FAA.

AC 20-165B Paragraph 3.7.2.2 confirms the requirement in FAR 91.225 that ADS-B out equipment must be on at all times if installed.

FAR 91.225 (f) requires the equipment to be in transmit mode at ALL times. FAR 91.225 (f) (1) Allows you to continue to your ultimate destination if the equipment becomes inop enroute. Otherwise I believe you are grounded with inop ADS-B out if installed. AC 20-165B Paragraph 2.2.2.5 Says the ADS-B out equipment should be on at all times even on the ground and not turned off after landing like we normally do with transponders. Although ACs are not mandatory, the equipment is designed and installed to meet the guidelines in the AC. So the way I see it, if you install ADS-B in your aircraft it must be on and operating for you to legally operate the aircraft, ground or air, UNLESS you are completing a flight or series of flights to your ultimate destination OR taking the aircraft somewhere to get the ADS-B repaired. ADS-B becomes as much a required piece of equipment as your oil pressure gauge once you install the system. i think this is why the FAA is proposing, in the AD concerning certain Navworks ADS-B installations, that the equipment be REMOVED instead of disabled. If it's removed you can continue to fly if it's disabled you can't.

And by the way, it is indeed the "FAA's Problem" if the majority of aircraft in the USA are NOT compliant by Jan 1st 2020. They are well aware of this and are offering rebates in an effort to increase the level of compliance. I expect they will up the ante as we get closer to 2020.

Sounds like a nice plane but why would you even consider a field overhaul if you intend to sell it? As a buyer I would be thinking you "Cheaped out", I don't know your mechanic. If the plane is in awesome shape it deserves a name brand overhaul to complete the package. Price accordingly. Digitize all maintenance records from day 1, including all STCs and 337s. Every mod should have a corresponding STC or 337, Make sure the aircraft is located somewhere easily reached by airline. Make sure you can be reached without fail during normal business hours! I have tried to purchase an aircraft from someone too busy to answer the phone and it's no fun. If you don't have time to answer the phone, field questions, and show the aircraft, list it with a professional. Take lots of pictures of everything you can think of, inside and out. Have a friend look it over with a critical eye and report back to you ALL flaws no matter how minor. Fix those of any significance. Be prepared to talk about each flaw with a buyer. Make sure the last annual was from an MSC. A nice looking, IFR equipped, squawk free airplane with a recent QUALITY annual, fairly priced will sell immediately. People are looking right now for such an aircraft.

Few issues involving the FAA are as "Cut and Dried" as you seem to think.

Seems to me that at this point, a few years out from mandatory compliance, the FAA should be working WITH the manufacturers to develop equipment that will encourage maximum compliance at affordable prices. Heavy handed enforcement does little to encourage manufacturers to improve products and prevents start up manufacturers from bringing new products to market. One only needs to watch how this plays out to understand why everything related to aviation is so expensive and product development so slow.

Seems a little late in the game to be having these problems. The FAA is not instilling confidence in me to the point that I am interested in spending the money to comply. Heck, the system is not even required equipment today and yet they are demanding folks REMOVE the system. Remember gents that once you install ADS-B out, it must be on at ALL times, even on the ground.

Here is a "heads up" for fellow Mooneyspace members that are considering ADS-B. There is a group buy in progress over at Beechtalk for the Freeflght Systems ADS-B out solutions. http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=129683

It's easy to forget when shopping, that all the cool tools come at a price over and above the check you write to the installer and to Jeppesen. The price to be paid is that you must negotiate the learning curve of how to make the gadget do what you want it to do. Depending on how often you fly and the availability of desktop simulation software, the time to master the gadget may prove lengthy.

Don't you just live it when all the new stuff is supposed to make it easier and it doesn't. Sometimes I think a fixed card ADF approach is simpler than a GPS. A VOR approach surely is.

The simplest solution is often the best. Too much integration with other systems hamstrings future upgrade options and makes you tremendously dependant on software upgrades, often from unsympathetic manufacturers. Seems like the simplest solution always comes back to an "All in One" ADS-B solution like the Freeflight FDL-978-TXL, Navworx ADS600-B or Garmin GDL84. No communication issues with an independant nav source now or EVER. Pick the one that you think will continue to be supported with software upgrades as this whole ADS-B boondoggle matures, and is priced within your budget. What a mess, and we are just getting started! Sometimes I miss the dual navcomm-ADF-ILS days. Life was simple.

Awesome news! Been following you from the beginning. Now go out and fly, safely.

We don't yet know what happened to this flight that resulted in tragedy. Our hearts are saddened by the news. Regardless of the reason, such an event is a sobering reminder that disaster is always close at hand either through mechanical failure, weather or personal error. Endeavors involving complex machines traveling at high speed can NEVER be made 100% safe, there will always be risk. You can't legislate good judgement or the ability to anticipate problems. It's up to each of us as pilots to develop personal policies, minimums and thought processes to insure the safety of ourselves, family and friends who place their lives in our care. Sadly there are some that never fully recognize or accept the latent dangers of any kind of travel. People die in airplanes, boats, cars, on bicycles, and stepping off a curb. However, I believe that flying in a well maintained aircraft, piloted by a careful, thoughtful, person, aware of his limitations and those of his machine, to be among the safest methods of travel. May God bless our friends on this flight and the family and friends they leave behind.

JK: Nice plane! A lucky find indeed. I think the easiest way to find a nice plane is very much like finding love. The harder you look the harder it is to find. It usually comes along when you least expect it and not really interested in finding it. Some of us are a bit more lucky than others.

Sometimes "State of the Art" has more to do with the cost to manufacture a product and the profit potential of said product. NOT the durability, strength, longevity or suitability of the product. Lots of 50 year old aluminum planes still flying with 50 year old vacuum steam gauges. We will see how the "State of the Art" stuff holds up over time.

You guess correctly. Long time aviation professional but first time single engine piston buyer. You are a lucky man indeed to have had such awesome luck buying used airplanes. I wish I had time to describe all the problems I encountered, missing logs, undocumented overhauls, pencil whipped annuals, missing STCs, wrinkled skins, corrosion, severe hangar rash, and the list goes on. To think you have not encountered any problems is nothing short of astounding. Perhaps you should teach a class or at least clue others in on how to find nice planes. I would love to learn your secret.

KLRDMD: I'm very happy you had a very easy time finding what you were looking for at All American. I'm impressed that you purchase planes without a prebuy. You are a trusting man indeed. I made a point of driving 5 hours to see Mr. Garrison in person after spending a couple of weeks attepting communications via phone and email with only limited success. My visit in person was not productive, he did not have a "C" model Mooney that met my requirements. I wouldn't think of purchasing an airplane from anyone without a pre-purchase inspection, even All American. No dealer can be expected to know everything about the aircraft they represent. Finding a Mooney is easy. Finding one fairly priced, in good condition, with complete logs and a good history is not.

Sam: It's likely this DPE problem has been going on for some time and the school/flying club has avoided telling you about it for fear of losing out on your money. Hard to believe they even call themselves a flight school with such a glaring problem. Your ACE flight instructor has done you no favors, he has to have known about this too. I would certainly make the arrangements to finish up over a weekend somewhere else. Even if you have to buy an airline ticket to go to a REAL flight school in Denver or Dallas to finish up, it would be worth it after all the money you have already spent.

Mccdeuce: Hello! My son is an Ensign in Norfolk, been there for a year after finishing up OCS about a year ago. I spent almost 6 months looking for a C model Mooney but was not successful and ended up with something else. I know how hard it is to shop long distance via internet and telephone. I don't know how long you've been at this so I will offer a few tips anyway. I hope you have done your due diligence before comitting to the pre-buy. Have you inspected all of the logs, mapped out the STCsand 337 to compare with the log entries, insured all ADs are complied with and the SBs that are important to you complied with? Happy with the maintenance of all expensive components, prop, engine, mags? Have you had someone put hands on it for you to warn of severe hangar rash, corrosion or leaky tanks? Pretty cheap to hire a mechanic for a few hours to drive over and have a look, or maybe just a friend. It's really difficult to get a read on a plane from a thousand miles away, you have to be extra careful. As to the pilot, Don Maxwell may know of someone. And by the way, ask Don if he is familiar with the airplane. Please send me a PM if you need any help on this end, I work at KGGG where Maxwell is and live in Tyler, about 120 mi North of Houston. Good luck with your purchase! Gene

The point is that the manufacturer recommends maintenance at specific hourly intervals, the tach does not record flight hours except at a specific RPM. Therefore the hours displayed on the tach do not precisely represent the hours on the engine. The tach shows an approximation of engine hours. It would be prudent to more closely monitor the condition of the engine when the tach suggests the overhaul is approaching. Alternatively, one could record the flight time of every flight, and then calculate actual hours on the engine. The tach hours could be off by several hundred hours by the time an overhaul interval is reached. Other indications could be used to confirm the necessity of an overhaul.