BKlott

Don’t buy something you can’t afford to overhaul.

I have...for the past eighteen years.

I don’t see this as just a “chute” versus “no chute” decision. For someone in the used aircraft market today, that wants a state-of-the-art aircraft, they face the choice of either acquiring a legacy airframe and spending $$$,$$$ modernizing it to make it “like new” or they can purchase a newer airframe that is already state-of-the-art. The problems associated with going the modernization route are seemingly endless. You start with 40 to 50 year old airframes that, with few exceptions, were not corrosion proofed at the factory. There is no good, reasonable way to thoroughly correct that. To have the glass panel, fully integrated avionics package with a full function auto pilot, you will need to redo the instrument panel and rewire the aircraft to bring it up to snuff. You’re not really going to keep using 40 to 50 year old wiring after doing all this work, are you? It isn’t like the Avionics shops are sitting around waiting for someone to come by and give them something to do. It took me six months to obtain two quotes on a much simpler audio panel, GTN and CDI purchase and install job. Then you can start refurbishing the airframe with new UV screen tinted glass, a leather interior and a sharp new paint job. Finding a paint shop that is careful, detailed oriented and meticulous in it’s work will be the next challenge for you. Once you find one and get on their schedule, don’t plan on flying your airplane for another two months. Of course, you’ll want the engine and propellor to be like new as well. While your engine is at the overhaul shop or you are waiting for your factory reman to show up, you might as well send out that engine mount for x-ray inspection and repairs. After all, it has been supporting that engine for the past 45 to 50 years while being subjected to vibration, G forces and temperature extremes. Besides, you can’t eyeball it and see all the cracks or internal rust that is taking place. To be “like new” you’ll want to renew everything firewall forward that hasn’t recently been replaced already. All of this doesn’t even address airframe specific items like landing gear donuts or leaking wet wing fuel tanks, etc. When you finally get done with your project, which will take more than a year out of your life at best....count on it....you will still have a legacy 45 to 50 year old airframe that you have invested well over $$$,$$$ in it that is subject to being rendered unairworthy by corrosion. The other option is to spend your $$$,$$$ and purchase a 10 to 12 year old airframe that is state-of-the-art, that isn’t subject to corrosion issues, that has some additional features that the legacy airframes do not have and go flying...avoiding all of the hassles, aggravation, inconvenience and grief that comes with refurbishing a legacy airframe. Make no mistake. If you own an airplane, want it to be nice and keep it long enough, you will end up with $$$,$$$ invested in your ship. Engines and props wear out, avionics become worthless and unreliable, paint jobs, glass and interiors become worn and dated. You might find that the ragged out plane that doesn’t bother you...nobody else wants. Either way, that costs you money in the end.

Remember when the FAA wanted to start requiring sleep apnea tests based on your BMI? AOPA pitched a fit and they backed off. One thing that I’ve noticed since then was that they started requiring heart patients (that were applying for a Special Issuance Medical Certificate) to take the 24 Holter Monitor Test. I’ve spoken to other heart patients that also ran into this requirement that we weren’t required to do in the past. Left me wondering if this wasn’t a “back door” attempt to identify Pilots with sleep apnea so that they could require further testing or issue a denial. For the nineteen calendar year period 2000 through 2018 the FAA denied 64,675 American Citizens who applied for an Airman Third Class Medical Certificate. This is information that I obtained via the Freedom of Information Act. My advice would be to go BasicMed if you can.

If you are needing to upgrade to a new VOR head/indicator, the price difference between a new Garmin Indicator and a G5 is about $300. Granted, the G5 installation cost is higher than the install on the Indicator but you get the added benefits of an electronic HSI as a result. There is another point to consider that may be driving G5 sales.

I would be curious to know how many of the folks who pulled the chute and survived that exciting experience continued flying or decided that they have had enough? I would just like to know.

Maroon colored scotch-brite pads with mineral spirits to start with.

Don’t believe that Catalina (KAVX) has any fuel or services other than a cafe at the airport. Might be better to stop at Torrance (KTOA) for your fuel.

Tclark. Welcome to the forum and to the world of aircraft ownership. One thing that you cannot do is just give us one (1) picture. We want more!

Sorry you had to witness that, Clarence. I’ve witnessed three accidents, two of which involved fatalities. I sincerely hope that we never have to witness another one ever again.

Recommend St. Simons Island (KSSI) located off the coast of Southeastern Georgia. Golden Isle Aviation is a first rate, GA friendly FBO. Avis car rental located in the terminal and if you have a reservation, they will bring your car out on the ramp when you arrive. Treat the Mrs. like a queen and stay at the King & Prince resort. Enjoy a romantic dinner overlooking the ocean at Echo, the resort’s restaurant, then step outside for a stroll along the beach or just sit in one of the rocking swing seats as darkness sets in. While on the island visit Southern Soul Bar-b-q located at the corner of the airport for lunch. Tour the site of Fort Frederica then drive or fly over to nearby Jekyll Island to visit the historic Jekyll Island Club. St. Simons is just the right place for a relaxing island getaway.

On February 28th I flew my plane to the nearest Avionics Shop and met with the shop manager. I had prepared a typed outline of exactly what I wanted done. He spent a good 15 to 20 minutes with me going down the list, making suggestions and taking notes. He promised a quote by “ the middle of next week”. I am still waiting for his quote. I did attempt to follow-up with him a couple of weeks later. I was told that he would contact me “by the end of the day”. Still waiting for that contact too. The next closest shop didn’t even respond to my request. My previous avionics shop changed hands after the Technician passed away and has received unfavorable reviews since then. The Shop we used before that one got out of the business (actually told an FAA Inspector to take the license off the wall and get out of his shop) due to the frustrations of dealing with the FAA. Hard to imagine that! That one was THE BEST avionics shop of all. Consequently I’ve had to expand my geographic area to shops within a hour or two flight time just to get the one quote I’ve received. Certainly not an ideal situation and terrible for any servicing issues down the road but what else do you do? I’ve got legacy gear that is becoming unreliable and needs to be upgraded. I would think a new GTN, new Audio Panel and new Indicator would be a decent sale and install job for a shop. Maybe not. Maybe they can’t be bothered with such nuisance work like this. I’ve also been considering trading my plane in for a used Cirrus or Columbia/Corvalis, putting an end to the endless cycle of trying to modernize and upgrade my current ship by purchasing one that is already there.

You should just be happy that you actually were able to get a quote from an Avionics Shop. I’ve approached six (6) different shops requesting quotes and have received exactly one (1). This started back in February! The one shop that has provided a quote is probably going to win my business by default. I guess nobody else is interested.

Airplanes like the Cessna Columbia/Corvalis/TTX and the Cirrus SR22 have largely made the legacy single engine retractable fleet obsolete. They offer comparable, if not superior, performance with roomier, more comfortable cabins, built-in air conditioning and oxygen systems, along with fully integrated modern avionics and autopilot systems. They do all this without having the added complexity, maintenance, risks and costs associated with retractable landing gear. Their airframes are not subject to corrosion issues which can render them un-airworthy. Time and progress have bypassed the manufacturing standards and techniques of the 1950s and 1960s. The manufacturers who are stuck in that technology era are just hanging on. The sales results in the marketplace have spoken. Like it or not, today’s buyers want the slick carbon fiber airframes with roomy cabins, fixed gear and, yes, the last gasp safety option of a BRS. Their comes a point when you realize that the cost to acquire and modernize a legacy airplane to make it “like new”, can easily become a $150,000+ endeavor. Then you find corrosion on your spar, in your empennage or suffer one gear up landing and it can all come to an end. You’re back to square one and it’s hard to justify. Or you go to sell your $150K investment and find that you’re lucky to get an offer for fifty cents on the dollar. Again, it’s hard to justify. You might just reach the conclusion that you would be better off and way ahead of the game by purchasing a used Cirrus/Columbia/Corvalis/TTX in the first place.

Since it seems to be related to rpm, you would likely suspect either an alternator or magneto related issue.

On this topic I remember reading that Lindbergh’s granddaughter spoke of him traveling to the museum incognito to see his airplane a number of times. He even made arrangements for an “after hours” visit where they made provisions for him to sit in the cockpit again, later in life.

My Wife and I are on a road trip which took us through Amarillo, Texas yesterday. I decided to stop in at Tradewinds Airport to see if I could recognize the place. You see, the last time I was there was during the summer of 1970. My Dad and I were returning to Torrance (KTOA) from Philadelphia International where we attended a family reunion. We were flying in Dad’s 1964 C Model Mooney. (Mom elected to stay longer and return on a commercial Airliner. She had had enough of the Mooney.) We stopped at Tradewinds for fuel and an overnight stay at the local Howard Johnson Motel. For some reason I remember that the motel restaurant had a meat loaf dinner special that Dad and I both enjoyed. Today the Airport has a beautiful, modern Terminal Building that wasn’t there forty nine years ago. The lady working the desk pointed out where the ground crew worked out of long ago. There was a very old FBO hangar adjacent to that building which probably dated back to that era. There was also a low post wooden type railing which separated the parking lot from the ramp area. That is the one thing there that bothered me and seemed vaguely familiar to me. Inside the Terminal Building are three groups of vintage photographs dating back to the late 1940s and early 1950s. In these pictures are mostly Bonanzas and Navions, along with a Staggerwing, an Ercoupe and others, all with their owners standing in front of them. All of the pictures were taken at Tradewinds Airport. The airplanes must have mostly been new as they still had their vintage factory paint schemes on them. I stood there looking at those pictures and realized that all of those folks and probably, many of those airplanes, are all gone now. While it saddened me, I was glad for this little tribute to that era of Pilots and their airplanes. As I left the building I glanced over to the ramp area and could almost see my Dad’s Mooney sitting there with it’s bright and shiny brown, yellow and white paint job. I don’t know If there is any good that comes out of these sentimental visits. I do know that they can be emotionally difficult to make. But I hope that somewhere, someone appreciates the thought and effort that goes into them.

Ironically, my Wife and I just checked in to the Hampton Inn in Kerrville...

My Wife and I have found over the years that camping at the Hampton Inn works well for us.

I would recommend a Grumman Cheetah. It won’t be able to do anything you are wanting it to do but you will have one helluva lot of fun flying it.

Wouldn’t the incorrect altitude more likely be a problem with your encoder instead of the KT76?

PM sent.

While you’re at Cahokia (KCPS), why not make the short hop to Creve Coeur (1HO) and check out the vintage aircraft in their museum displays? You can get up close and personal with a number of special, old airplanes there. Was there attending the Swift fly-in with my Dad some years ago and it was a great place to visit.

------- FAA Accident/Incident 1 ------- Occurrence Date 1984-11-21 Aircraft Make MOONEY Aircraft Model M20C Damage MINOR Document Last Modified 2012-04-19 Narrative ENGINE QUIT AFTER TAKEOFF. LANDED IN FIELD. 2 QUARTS OF WATER IN LEFT FUEL TANK, WATER IN CARBURETOR, GASCOLATOR. ------- FAA Accident/Incident 2 ------- Occurrence Date 1973-02-08 Aircraft Make MOONEY Aircraft Model M20C Damage SUBSTANTIAL Document Last Modified 2012-04-19 Narrative GEAR HANDLE NOT IN THE DOWN DETENT. ***** No NTBS Accidents Found ***** ------- NTBS Pre 1982 Accident 1 ------- Qccurrence Date 1973-02-08 Aircraft Make MOONEY Aircraft Model M20C Aircraft Serial Number 000000002303 Damage SUBSTANTIAL Accident Location MIDDLETON,WIS Occurrences GEAR RETRACTED Phase of Flight TAKEOFF - RUN Causes INADEQUATE PREFLIGHT PREPARATION AND/OR PLANNING FAILED TO ASSURE THE GEAR WAS DOWN AND LOCKED Narrative GEAR HANDLE NOT IN THE DOWN DETENT. ***** No SDR's Found *****

I would want a good pre buy to focus on engine condition and airframe corrosion. The two big deal killers in my mind. It seems like the plane has had some decent maintenance and upgrades with the fuel bladders, gear pucks, lightweight starter and alternator. The Stratus ADS-B is another important, positive selling point. The weaknesses include vintage avionics and whether or not the paint and interior appeal to you. If you are happy with the overall condition, the Avionics work and the pre-buy checks out, I think the airplane is reasonably priced. The best part is...it has the curved rear windows! NTSB Identification: CHI73FEP39 14 CFR Part 91 General Aviation Aircraft: MOONEY M20C, registration: N6520U ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FILE DATE LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA F S M/N PURPOSE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3-0456 73/2/8 MIDDLETON,WIS MOONEY M20C CR- 0 0 1 NONCOMMERCIAL PRIVATE, AGE 33, 400 TIME - 0815 N6520U PX- 0 0 0 BUSINESS TOTAL HOURS, 90 IN TYPE, DAMAGE-SUBSTANTIAL OT- 0 0 0 NOT INSTRUMENT RATED. NAME OF AIRPORT - MOREY ARPT DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION MIDDLETON,WIS IRONWOOD,MICH TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION GEAR RETRACTED TAKEOFF: RUN PROBABLE CAUSE(S) PILOT IN COMMAND - INADEQUATE PREFLIGHT PREPARATION AND/OR PLANNING PILOT IN COMMAND - FAILED TO ASSURE THE GEAR WAS DOWN AND LOCKED REMARKS- GEAR HANDLE NOT IN THE DOWN DETENT. Full narrative is not available