262 CONVERSION

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

I recently received a present day quote (attached) on a 262 conversion for a 231.  I would appreciate it if you all could take a look at it at let me know your feelings on the price point.  Thanks!

 

-Nick

262_Conv.pdf

[jetdriven]

Thats a fortune for an extra ten knots, a fresh engine, and dual alternators. Could you sell yours and buy an Ovation or 252? Parker just sold his, and you could sell yours and buy one like it for a lot less.

[chrisk]

But if you need an overhaul and a new prop, its not that much more

[jetdriven]

What exactly do you get for the 27K over and above an engine overhaul?  Also, the 8500$ for a prop exchange sounds kinda high. Arent those props about that much new?  FWIW we resealed ours and got it painted for 500$.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

I was looking at it from the perspective of someone who was going to need an overhaul. If someone were in my situation wherein when the time came they were going to need 1) factory reman engine (for the GB to LB conversion) 2) aftermarket Merlin waste gate and 3)aftermarket intercooler might it make more sense to go with the 262 MB conversion when you factor in labor and cost to purchase and install all that other stuff anyhow?

[John Pleisse]

Nick, this is the difference between what you want, your intended use, your anticipated resale, your comfort with your current airframe, what you have invested in your airframe and being flat-out cheap.. What your dollar, will buy you. Looks about $10k too high. It's a great conversion. Careful, there was a time when public dissemination of a document from that shop would be considered litigable.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Interestingly enough these are new owners and new personnel. I was told Coy Jacobs is in no way associated with this outfit. At face value the people I've been talking to all seem legitimate. Thoughts?

[John Pleisse]

Wonder what they paid for the extra, uphill public relations battle? Maybe with such a costly upgrade you could negotiate an annual or other significant upgrade for added value. I would have to be in love with my airframe and have a service history worthy of the upgrade. The Mooney community would be well served to have the Mart viable, friendly and trustworthy. Let us know how it goes, even if it doesn't. I hope both they and you do well.

[KSMooniac]

That sounds high to me, but I don't live in the K world myself and am not as familiar with the potential FWF costs.  If you want an intercooler and automatic wastegate, I would price the installed costs of both of those.  The 252 FWF is certainly more evolved, but at that price I would consider trading planes... the 262 conversions recently on the market seem to be in the 100-110k range from what I remember.  The downside of trading of course involves the transaction costs, de-squawking, upgrades, etc. to get it up to your personal spec, but for that kind of cost you might still come out way ahead.

 

All that aside, the fact that you even got a quote is encouraging IMO if that means some of those old STC's are going to see the light of day again!

[Bennett]

Many years ago I had my 231 converted to a 261, which is effectively the same as the 262 conversion. Mine (261) was done by Tim and Coy at the old Mod Works, Later Coy split off, and started the 262 conversion. I have to say that the 261 was a great airplane, and that in the 16 or so years I owned her, I flew her to Alaska, most of the Caribbean islands, Mexico, and many transcontinental flights, mostly in the mid flight levels eastbound, and the mid teens westbound. The conversion was exactly right for my purposes at that time; mostly long distance, with just myself, or one other person. I had the Monroy tank mod done, along with just about all of Paul's STCs. As I recall the price at that time was about $66,000, not counting the long range tanks or mods not listed on the quote above. The only problems i ever had were vacuum system failures (could be any aircraft, but operating in the flight levels can be hard on vacuum pumps, and the speed brakes were the old vacuum system, which again is hard on the vacuum pumps). The solution was an electric back-up vacuum pump in the tailcone. Unfortunately I used the fully synthetic Mobil One aviation oil that was being touted by Mooney at that time. Some may recall that the FAA stopped Mobile from selling that oil after several Bonanzas suffered engine stoppage after using that oil. I ended up settling with Mobil (long story), with them paying for about half of a new super custom engine (built by Paul at LASAR) that ended up costing about $64,000 with all new accessories, and baffles. One other squawk: It was difficult to keep the two voltage regulators in sync for this mod. Not a terrible problem, but these regulators were expensive (even though they they carried Ford markings). All in all, the 261 was the perfect airplane for me at that time, and for my requirements. A good 252 would be an alternate, depending on the price differentials. At the time I had the 261 conversion done, 252s (few if any used ones) were at least twice as expensive as having the conversion done to my perfectly good 231.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

I have a squawk free airframe (and engine) which I really love...but its a GB and i'll have to upgrade at least to the LB when the time comes. I would hate to start over with another airframe which is why I was looking at the mod. The GB to LB factory reman engine is 40K +\- and 10k more to add an aftermarket intercooler and waste gate. So the price of the MB engine (50k) is pretty much a wash...that would make sense to me. Factor in say 60 hours to R/R engines when the time comes. And 10 more hours to install the aftermarket equipment. So the labor hours are getting close either way I think? I would have to find out more about the prop and why that's so costly. I would also wonder how much useful load I would be losing? Time to ask more questions. All good stuff. Keep the comments coming please

[Glenn]

Another thing to consider may be, do you love your avionics set-up?  If you do, that could count significantly in favor of the conversion.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Over the past three years I invested in a Garmin GTN 650 (10K) and JPI EDM 900 (10K) new PP alternator, new shock discs, new tires and tubes, new aero comfort interior (10k), overhauled A/P roll servo, plane has newer paint in great condition, I flew it twice from FL to TX so Maxwell's shop could do the annual (I'm done doing that - separate topic) etc, etc, etc. this is part of the reason why i don't know if I want the ass pain and expense of getting another mid body mooney up to my specs again.

[Glenn]

I agree with you!  Maybe that's why I have owned the same F model for 28 years.  With the avionics upgrades, some speed mods, that I have added over the years, and the fact that I know everything works, I would not trade straight up for the average J, even though the J is probably 7 knots faster.  Peace-of-mind, and lack of hassles has a value.  Plus you avoid the issues involved with selling and buying.

[jetdriven]

You can be happy with what you got it you can go into it for a quarter million. Just keep in mind it will only sell for 130-140k regardless of what you spend.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

You can be happy with what you got it you can go into it for a quarter million. Just keep in mind it will only sell for 130-140k regardless of what you spend.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

130K is even a pretty optimistic figure if you ask me. I wonder if they could or would come down 10K and include an annual?

[Parker_Woodruff]

Tough call.  I like it when people make their existing airfames the "best in class" and wouldn't blame you for wanting to keep what you have.

 

Check the sales tax laws in FL...you might not be subject to them on that estimate.

 

One thing to consider is how well will the cowling paint match your existing paint on the rest of the airframe?

[RJBrown]

This is why the Rocket conversion was so popular in its day. Similar pricing but with a worthwhile difference in performance. What it comes down to is what is the cost difference and is there a corresponding value difference to YOU. Is it worth $30,000 more to you because I don't think the market will add that kind of value. An 82 231 price will top out below what you will have in it.

[goncaloareia]

Hi

I have a TSIO-360-MB1 engine from my 252 that has been boxed in storage (with special inhibition oil) for some years and I'm selling it. Since most people are not considering buying it "as is" because of the extended "box time" (which I understand) I'm thinking of getting it overhauled. This engine and the low price I'm asking for it  may be a good solution for your mooney conversion, at a fraction of the price that you currently have quoted.

Whatch my other posts and you'll see the history of this engine or contact me if you're interested.

Kind regards from Portugal.

Goncalo

[Z W]

I have several hundred hours flying a 262 conversion.  The engine is really great.  Set the power you want, at any altitude.  Adjust the cowl flaps for the temperature you want, and it just flies.  Just overhauled the wastegate and pressure relief valve, otherwise it's been trouble-free.

 

Can't overboost it and it's easy to keep it cool.  Dual alternators, standby vacuum system.  About as redundant as you can get without adding another engine.

 

$80k is a big chunk of change.  It makes no financial sense.  You're going to have a plane that's worth $125k tops, as far as I can tell in today's market, when you're done.  Maybe less if your plane does not have speed brakes, hot prop (maybe the quote is for a hot prop, thus the expense?), split folding rear seats, long range tanks, and all the other goodies people are looking for in the 252 market.

 

But then again, owning and flying a Mooney makes no financial sense anyways.  It looks like maybe you're really paying the same price as an LB engine conversion, plus $10k for dual alternators, a better turbo and wastegate system, and the improved cowl flaps.  That would be worth it, to me.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Zane- I think the ONLY time the conversion MIGHT be prudent is at overhaul time. I have the GB engine w/o an automatic waste gate or intercooler. Those are two items I'm going to want if I were to go with the LB engine vice the conversion. . By the time I'm ready for overhaul there might be a turbo diesel STC available...who knows. Now that's something I would for sure want to do

[flyboy0681]

Nick, I'd be curious to know what your typical mission is.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Same day round trip from N. FL to S. FL several times a month. From FL to NY and PA to visit family several times a year. From FL to KEYWEST and the BAHAMAS to get away from family even more often. Always fly high (10k and above) always at max weight

[fantom]

From FL to KEYWEST and the BAHAMAS to get away from family even more often. Always fly high (10k and above) always at max weight

 

Outstanding Mooney utilization, Nick!