Flew first Mooney today!

[rob]

According to skynewbie's posts over on Beechtalk, comfort is a priority for him and he has already made up his mind that a Bonanza best meets his needs. 

 

There's nothing wrong with that, but its worth knowing.

 

Jim

 

Agreed. We are all lucky that choices are so abundant in small piston aircraft. Some guys prefer Mooney, some Beech. Nothing wrong with that. What confounds me is why then come here and try to get talked into something other than what you've decided on?

[OR75]

see my post #14: WOT ( which did not mean wide open throttle in this case)

[aviatoreb]

 

 

I've driven Lotus, Porsches (Cayman/911 Turbos) and Ferraris. You are right, the BMW M3 is heavier compared to these cars but much more comfy and luxurious. Yes, I trade pure performance for better balance of comfort and some good performance. I like the Mooney design and speed but not sure I can deal with sitting in such a cramped cabin for more than short flights. So yeah, Bonanza more roomy to me. Nothing against the Mooney in fact the climb performance and speed as well as felt very stable in turbulence make for a great aircraft just not the right fit for me. Sorry. Then again, I am not crazy about Cessnas and Pipers either. I am more of a Beechcraft Commander type guy that values comfy plane with decent performance. Maybe I can fly another Mooney model other than Rocket since I heard the controls are lighter in the 231 and 201J than the Rocket.

 

 

skynewbie, in part the controls "heavy-ness" will be related to your indicated airspeed since - you are deflecting faster air when you move the controls.  Try this out in any relatively fast airplane.  A Mooney rocket at 165IAS vs 100IAS the controls will be much lighter in the later.  In a Mooney 231 with a smaller engine you would come away with an impression that the controls are lighter if it is only capable of 140IAS - but I claim the airframe is the same and at the same weight, and at the same speed - slow your rocket down to 140IAS and the controls will feel IDENTICAL.  In fact as you approach landing/stall speed, the controls will even begin to feel mushy as with all airframes.  The beech is a different airframe, but this control weight still again related to IAS so be sure you are not calling the controls lighter simply if the airplane is going slower.   The other thing that makes for control heavyness is the control ratio - that is the "gearing" to how much small deflection of the control yoke will displace the aelerons by a given amount.  Same idea in a sports car vs a road car like a cadillac.  sports cars have very tight control ratio in their steering wheel which will make it feel heavy.  Note - I have never flown a Bonanza.

 

Actually if you are tall and thin a Mooney is way bigger than a Bonanza.  When I was shopping, I became very close to a certain a V35B until I sat in it.  I had no place to put my legs and my knees were bumping the panel and the v-bar.  Bonanza's are roomier inside overall, but there was no place to put my long legs and they are narrower, but much taller to put a 10 gallon hat on your head and much roomier for more passengers.  I think one thing that makes the Mooney small for shorter people is if you need to scooch the seat up to reach those same pedals which are extended way out (which tall people like me at 6'4'', and Al Mooney who was 6'5'' love).  This causes the panel to be too close to you giving the feeling of a cramped cabin. For me with the seat all the way back in the last detent, the panel is far away and I have the feeling of a wide open space and a spacious cabin.  If I were shorter and owning a Mooney, I would buy the pedal extensions which would cure the problem.   I wish my car had the same tall - guy comfort allowing me to put my seat so far back - but I do feel sorry for the person behind me.

 

Bonanzas are super airplanes too, and I did also take a peak over on beechtalk and see you are posting there that your decision seems to be already made.  Enjoy - they are wonderful airplanes too.  Note Mooney people will say Mooneys are better and Beech people will say Beeches are better....and Cirrus people and Cessna people and Piper people......

[aviatoreb]

 

[benpilot]

 

For me, Mooney is tight fit and controls way too heavy even at lower airspeeds. I did fly with owner of the Mooney Rocket and just not right plane for me. I fit in better as a short big guy in planes like Bonanza. I even flew in the Mooney with pedal extenders and still felt the yoke was close to my chest. I am not knocking the plane, I think if you are a tall thin single bachelor the Mooney is perfect plane. But for a short fat guy not the right one.

[RocketAviator]

Rocket does not suck fuel any more than any other aircraft. Slow it down to 200knots at 18,000 and I bet you'll can get the fuel flow around 16gph LOP. 

I can confirm this on the fuel consumption in my Rocket!

Oh and by the way I am a short fat guy with a wife (no kids anymore) but 5 grandchildren all who fly with me frequently (not all at the same time that is unless we are in the Saratoga)!  By the way I would make someone a very good deal on a good solid Saratoga!  Talk about room there is nothing like it not a Cessna 210 not a Bonanza nothing like it for a roomy 6 seat aircraft!  Now thinking of all that maybe I will just keep it!  Kind of like having a sports car and an SUV (that's a station wagon for us old folks)

Oh and I too have 3" Pedal Extensions!

Good luck I have tried on multiple occasions to find the perfect airplane for all missions.... so far that goal has eluded me...

 

Fly safe,

Rocket On!

[benpilot]

Oh well guess I don't like stiff heavy controls and cramped for me cabin. Guess there is a plane for everyone. I fit a lot better in the Bonanza and Socata. Then Piper was cramped as well.

[carusoam]

See ya then?

Heavy and precise controls on a traveling machine, is my preference.

If you're flying aerobatics, I get it. Don't fly a Mooney.

If your traveling long distance, what percentage of 4 hours are you looking for sprite handling?

Real world travel = Mooney

Real world ground travel = Chevy Tahoe

I don't see anyone load a Lotus with four people and come back a week later.

I think your preference is important to you, but the comparison of sports cars to traveling machines leaves me bewildered.

Best regards,

-a-

[rob]

You could fit 4 in an Evora and come back whenever you wanted. 

[benpilot]

 

Its a question of personal ergonomics. I've heard the newer long body Mooneys like Ovation and later are roomier. So would need to sit in one of these before I completely ruled out Mooney in the future. I did like most of the plane just the few things not to my taste that is all. I train in Cessna 172SP and they have plenty of room but are dogs and not great for long range travel.

[carusoam]

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?p=lotus+evora&back=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dlotus%2Bevora%26fr%3Dipad&w=1280&h=782&imgurl=2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-zf0ppkb_Kk0%2FTsI6L4FVSmI%2FAAAAAAAAA3w%2FVpIE1c2of3g%2Fs1600%2F2010_lotus_evora_6_1.jpg&size=712KB&name=2010_lotus_evora_6_1.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftopautos123.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F11%2Flotus-evora-red.html&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftopautos123.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F11%2Flotus-evora-red.html&type=&no=2&tt=115&oid=db1dd1422af1c64cfe51f93d788543ea&tit=Lotus+Evora+Red+%7C+Top+Automobiles&sigr=11sumrnsr&sigi=13181eshg&sigb=11ttnlkop&fr=ipad#

Lotus Evora....

Rob,

Looks like the engine occupies the space for passenger 3&4, and their week of luggage would go on the roof?

I'm not familiar. But thanks for the recommendation.

Best regards,

-a-

[benpilot]

 

Which is why I drive a BMW instead :-)

Anyways will see how it goes when I have chance to ride along in the later Mooney planes like Ovation. Might change my mind 

[Corvus]

Bonanzas are great, they are renowned for their control harmony, and fill their niche very well and have done so for decades. In fact all of the planes you have mentioned have wonderful positive attributes and they all have their shortcomings. But I feel that there is something that needs addressing with your situation, which is completely outside the topic of what plane to buy... It would be wise to consider spending some time and building some experience in the 172 that you are currently flying before you start seriously laying out what you are looking for. Im not saying that looking is bad, but your words suggest that you might be mentally jumping the gun and working on setting things in motion that you are perhaps not yet ready for. This isn't meant to be an insult, but If you are working on your private, you are a ways off from being able to competently and safely manage any high flying fast complex aircraft. Adding the proposed plan of using the plane for commuting to a regular job is going to be managed carefully. "Get there itis" has killed a lot of pilots and will kill a lot more, a faster airplane will just do it faster. There are many people no longer alive that are a testament to that. Its not a matter of intellect, or capability, as I am sure you are a successful individual and good at what you do, but so were many doctors, businessmen, lawyers, professors and so on that bought the farm going down this same road of buying an airplane they weren't ready for. Safely flying any of the aircraft you are looking at it is a matter of experience flying, and ratings. The insurance rates will probably reflect that. I don't intent to come off melodramatic, but this is aviation, the stakes are pretty high..

[benpilot]

 

Corvus, I know MANY new pilots who get trained after PPL with instructor and do fine in complex airplanes. Not rocket science you can kill yourself as easy in a Cessna as a Mooney or Cirrus or Bonanza. So I agree to disagree. If 17 year old kids can get trained to fly jets not see Bonanza or Mooney as that hard to learn safely with dual instruction and time.

[rob]

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?p=lotus+evora&back=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dlotus%2Bevora%26fr%3Dipad&w=1280&h=782&imgurl=2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-zf0ppkb_Kk0%2FTsI6L4FVSmI%2FAAAAAAAAA3w%2FVpIE1c2of3g%2Fs1600%2F2010_lotus_evora_6_1.jpg&size=712KB&name=2010_lotus_evora_6_1.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftopautos123.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F11%2Flotus-evora-red.html&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftopautos123.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F11%2Flotus-evora-red.html&type=&no=2&tt=115&oid=db1dd1422af1c64cfe51f93d788543ea&tit=Lotus+Evora+Red+%7C+Top+Automobiles&sigr=11sumrnsr&sigi=13181eshg&sigb=11ttnlkop&fr=ipad#

Lotus Evora....

Rob,

Looks like the engine occupies the space for passenger 3&4, and their week of luggage would go on the roof?

I'm not familiar. But thanks for the recommendation.

Best regards,

-a-

Look closer, the Evora is a 2+2. And you can fit a set of golf clubs in her. Ship the rest.

[carusoam]

I was thinking four FAA sized standard people AND their golf equipment...

+2 is similar to the back seats of the M20C.

Best regards,

-a-

[benpilot]

 

Ovation is starting to look good once prices come down on used ones since it may be more roomy than older Mooneys.

[OR75]

i have heard bo's prices are also coming down

[benpilot]

 

Well for what a new Cirrus costs or even a used one, I can buy both a used Bonanza and Mooney! So have backup plane and one for single guy commuter shuttle right?

Anyways, I need to fly some more different models of Mooney and Bonanza then make decisions. Not rushing it and there is a Mooney 20F for rent to get checked out here at KPAO so that would get me my complex endorsement and time flying it. I do like Mooney better than Piper and Cessna for same amount of money.

[carusoam]

How do you make friends outside of Mooneyspace?

[benpilot]

 

me? airshows, club events, travel, business. Lots of pilots use their planes for business travel. I know of guys that are luckier than me who hit it big and own several aircraft like a fast twin as well as aerobatic planes and singles. I'm just a techie who digs aviation and flying. Looking forward to earning my ticket so I can fly something faster and better than a cessna 172.

[Marauder]

me? airshows, club events, travel, business. Lots of pilots use their planes for business travel. I know of guys that are luckier than me who hit it big and own several aircraft like a fast twin as well as aerobatic planes and singles. I'm just a techie who digs aviation and flying. Looking forward to earning my ticket so I can fly something faster and better than a cessna 172.

I loved my time in a 172. It was a great trainer and even better site seeing plane. When I lived in WNY I would rent a 172 to take visiting friends site seeing over Niagara Falls instead of using my Mooney. I do remember a funny story flying in a 172. A buddy of mine owned a 172 and I flew with him from Buffalo to Syracuse on an IFR flight plan. On the way back, we picked up some strong westerly winds in front of an incoming winter storm but were in VMC. The controller working us called and asked if we wanted to try a different altitude. Apparently he noticed, like we did, that the traffic on the Thruway was moving faster than we were.

[flyboy0681]

I'm a bit more philosophical. I read a lot of posts here about people hemming and hawing between a 201, 232, Rocket, Ovation - what have you. But last Sunday I flew to the Bahamas in my '83 J and it was pure serendipity. Flying high above the islands without a single bump in the sky I said to myself, "it just doesn't get any better than this". For me the 201 is the perfect mix of speed and efficiency and is all this average Joe will ever need.

[kmyfm20s]

I'm a bit more philosophical. I read a lot of posts here about people hemming and hawing between a 201, 232, Rocket, Ovation - what have you. But last Sunday I flew to the Bahamas in my '83 J and it was pure serendipity. Flying high above the islands without a single bump in the sky I said to myself, "it just doesn't get any better than this". For me the 201 is the perfect mix of speed and efficiency and is all this average Joe will ever need.

Couldn't agree more! I just did a trip to Wyoming from San Diego this weekend and got the same feeling. I couldn't believe the blend of speed and economy that my 82J provided.

[benpilot]

 

Very nice and 201J is lot more affordable than the 252/Ovations for a new pilot on a budget :-)

Was it difficult flying to Bahamas? Did you have to get special radio operator license? I  want to fly to Caymans and Mexico after having a plane.