SiriusXM or Starlink and Internet for Weather?

[good2eat]

Was getting ready to renew SiriusXM Aviation and it occurred to me perhaps Starlink would be a better way to go.  Would get both weather access and general internet use.  Wouldn’t get the weather rendered on the GTN 750 but would still have IPad.  Would also have access to SiriusXM audio channels via my phone app and the Starlink.  Overall seems it would be significantly less expensive with broader application.  
 

What am I missing?

[toto]

You’re right about the cost. A Starlink Mini in standby mode is only $5/month, and all of the things you want to do you’ll be able to do at 500kbps. 

The setup for Starlink is more fiddly and probably a bit less reliable than XM or ADS-B. I have a GDL 52, and you basically just toss it on the glareshield and it always works. The Starlink is much larger, and requires a bit more attention to proper placement etc. It’s not really an “always on” solution. 

I’ve only flown with my Mini once, so I’m far from an expert. From a cost perspective, the Starlink wins. But it’s probably not as reliable or “set and forget” as XM. Ymmv

 

[affricate]

I cancelled all of my SiriusXM and use the starlink mini with my iPad. I get my weather via Foreflight and the paid subscription Windy app on iPad in conjunction with Stratus ADSB weather.

 

I have the local priority plan, starlink 60/month 

 

I power the starlink with the Anker Solid C300 DC power bank and I can get from AZ to Ohio with it,

 

Super fast connectivity, streaming, etc 

 

 

[Max Clark]

ADS-B weather on the GTN750 is pretty good. I use it for general situational awareness and trends.

Don't forget about the data delay. Easy to get into a bad situation thinking you're okay.

You should be able to change your source on your GTN and test this before you make a decision.

Starlink is amazing. Using this combined with an iPad is going to give you the best info, but you're going to have to deal with mounting and power.

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Max Clark said:

You should be able to change your source on your GTN and test this before you make a decision.

Do you mean changing the source for weather on the GTN to come from the Starlink??

[Max Clark]

No - the GTN has an option for ADS-B weather. You could probably set that instead of XM to see what would change if you cancelled the XM.

[dkkim73]

Haven't played with Starlink yet. I suppose it depends on your flying exposure/mission/needs. I'm skeptical of consumer-grade solutions to important inputs like tactical weather. Yes, I know it's supposed to be for general planning only, but the reality is that people do use it more heavily than that. 

I like having ADS-B FIS-B wx on my iPad, but I've got XM on the G1000 which is my primary source of info (XM>FIS-B). 

It feels penny-wise and pound-foolish to burn avgas and then save money on your weather info. 

If you want Starlink anyway (the internet already follows me too much into my plane via the smartphones, so I'm not eager) then by all means experiment and use it. I would think though if you're planning a business flight, IFR in real IMC, and need best wx info, why not have something a little simpler and more robust (e.g. SXM into a GTN). 

my 2 cents... oh wait no more pennies

[dkkim73]

6 hours ago, Max Clark said:

No - the GTN has an option for ADS-B weather. You could probably set that instead of XM to see what would change if you cancelled the XM.

That's a good point, at least have FIS-B and TIS-B if you have a source (Garmin transponder, GDL, etc); no subscription required. 

Then the choice is between FIS-B and (S)XM, and anything you do with Starlink will just be gravy. 

[Schllc]

In the last year I have had some chronic issues with XM. It has gone over an hour with no updates, no music and no weather. 
Sky was clear and sunny, and I flew over 250 miles before it came back. 
It also doesn’t receive its initial data until about 20 minutes into my flight about 75% of the time. It does this in both of my planes so I do not believe it’s the install or equipment. 
and it has happened to me all over the country. 
How does starlink work with clouds and weather obstruction?  Is it like direct tv was, where you lose signal in storms?

[LANCECASPER]

23 minutes ago, Schllc said:

In the last year I have had some chronic issues with XM. It has gone over an hour with no updates, no music and no weather. 
Sky was clear and sunny, and I flew over 250 miles before it came back. 
It also doesn’t receive its initial data until about 20 minutes into my flight about 75% of the time. It does this in both of my planes so I do not believe it’s the install or equipment. 
and it has happened to me all over the country. 
How does starlink work with clouds and weather obstruction?  Is it like direct tv was, where you lose signal in storms?

I just put my XM on a 6 month pause and am anxious to try out my Starlink. For the last couple of years if it had been awhile since I flew I made sure I did a refresh signal on the XM before take-off. I kept the info on my phone so I could quickly to a copy and paste the Radio ID into the link for each weather and music and always ended up with good coverage right after take-off.

(https://care.siriusxm.com/subscribe/refresh-signal/unauthenticated-landing-page?intcmp=OTHER_NA_www:Home_RequestRadioSignal)

Unfortunately our airplanes still have the legacy XM rather than that faster SiriusXM (SXM). Garmin sells a newer box, but it is cost-prohibitive, especially now with Starlink. https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/228/pn/010-01294-16/

[Schllc]

I fly almost twice a week, it isn’t a function of frequency. It has also happened multiple times while flying. 
I have Adsb weather as a backup, but that isn’t available everywhere. 
I’d really like a starlink, but don’t want that contraption on my dash. 
I’ll wait until they make a real mini.  
Steep discounts are thpically, not always but usually, a predictor of one or two things, slipping demand, or a new model is immanent. 

 

[LANCECASPER]

16 minutes ago, Schllc said:

Steep discounts are thpically, not always but usually, a predictor of one or two things, slipping demand, or a new model is immanent. 

Since I just bought one last week, that's almost a guarantee that a new model is imminent . . . lol.

[exM20K]

2 hours ago, Schllc said:

In the last year I have had some chronic issues with XM. It has gone over an hour with no updates, no music and no weather. 
Sky was clear and sunny, and I flew over 250 miles before it came back. 
It also doesn’t receive its initial data until about 20 minutes into my flight about 75% of the time. It does this in both of my planes so I do not believe it’s the install or equipment. 
and it has happened to me all over the country. 
How does starlink work with clouds and weather obstruction?  Is it like direct tv was, where you lose signal in storms?

That has not been my experience at all. Occasionally, the descriptors on the entertainment page will disappear, but they re-populate quickly. As for weather data, mine has been rock solid for thousands of hours both in this airplane and the new Diamond Aircraft I used to fly. Having any issue in two different installations suggests it’s not a hardware issue, but it sure sounds like it to me. It’s not geography or alignment with the satellites as we fly in very similar latitudes. 
 

The Starlink on my house does occasionally slow down significantly when the rainfall rates exceed something like 2 in./h.  But that, too, is very, very infrequent and of short duration.
 

As @LANCECASPER said, we are on the legacy XM satellites with our GDL69A receivers. I do not think the the company has any additional XM satellites to launch should the existing ones fail. If they want to remain in this business, it would be advisable to heavily subsidize a change over to the newer receivers that use the Sirius satellites, because with strong, inexpensive, and ever improving competition from Starlink, I’m not certain I would pay thousands of dollars to switch out the GDL69.

-dan

[Max Clark]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

I’d really like a starlink, but don’t want that contraption on my dash. 
I’ll wait until they make a real mini.  

Lol I carry mine around in my backpack. High speed internet almost anywhere on the planet! It's amazing how quickly we forget how amazing technology is and complain it's not the size of a thimble.

[Max Clark]

2 hours ago, Schllc said:

In the last year I have had some chronic issues with XM. It has gone over an hour with no updates, no music and no weather. 
Sky was clear and sunny, and I flew over 250 miles before it came back. 
It also doesn’t receive its initial data until about 20 minutes into my flight about 75% of the time. It does this in both of my planes so I do not believe it’s the install or equipment. 
and it has happened to me all over the country. 
How does starlink work with clouds and weather obstruction?  Is it like direct tv was, where you lose signal in storms?

Starlink is in a lower orbit. It will still be susceptible to rain (and cloud) fade, but not as significantly much. Negatives of this orbit is you need significantly more birds in orbit, but with Spacex launching ~2k satellites per year they are working through all of the coverage negatives.

The legacy satelite companies don't have the cash or launch capabilities to put new hardware into orbit in any meaningful way. Commercial fleet is moving away from Viasat to Spacex. Either Garmin or one of their competitors are going to launch Starlink connected systems in the next few years. That or we'll have it integrated into our cellphones first.

[Schllc]

3 hours ago, Max Clark said:

Lol I carry mine around in my backpack. High speed internet almost anywhere on the planet! It's amazing how quickly we forget how amazing technology is and complain it's not the size of a thimble.

Richards Feynman forecast this in the 50’s or 60’s. 
he said miniaturization was the future. He was so certain he offered  cash reward for the first person to write the alphabet on the head of a pin. 
we are indeed standing on the shoulders of giants, and it is amazing that the mini is as compact. But the fact that you can satellite text with our existing iPhones says that we are not far away from this technology shrinking in the very near future. 
point being, it was less a complaint than a fact that the antenna is not small inside a Mooney cockpit. 
@exM20K

I have had the same experience over the last 10 years. Rock solid. That’s why this is so jarring. 

[toto]

11 hours ago, Max Clark said:

Lol I carry mine around in my backpack. High speed internet almost anywhere on the planet! It's amazing how quickly we forget how amazing technology is and complain it's not the size of a thimble.

They really are pretty small. I have mine in a small backpack too.

ETA: I use this little Timbuk2 backpack (pictured with the Starlink inside - it takes up very little room).

[toto]

10 hours ago, Schllc said:

Steep discounts are thpically, not always but usually, a predictor of one or two things, slipping demand, or a new model is immanent. 

There’s also speculation that Amazon Leo will be launching soon with very aggressive pricing on both hardware and subscriptions. 

[EricJ]

15 hours ago, toto said:

There’s also speculation that Amazon Leo will be launching soon with very aggressive pricing on both hardware and subscriptions. 

Yes, there are multiple competing systems that be will going up, including Amazon's (or Bezo's) Kuiper.    Starlink has a temporary market advantage and is trying to capitalize on it.   I was recently helping with an organization looking at doing fleet aircraft installs of Starlink, and the aircraft factory was offering to install them.   I suggested temporary installations (like in the window, which is practical on those aircraft) would be better since nobody is going to want a five- or ten-year old system integrated in the airframe when something 10x better and cheaper is available, which is the normal expected technology cycle.

And remember, Iridium has been around for 25 years.   They just don't offer as much throughput, but they haven't caused nearly as many issues, either.

As more of these systems go up, radio astronomy will likely be greatly diminished.    If there are too many collisions, access to space may be greatly impaired as well.   Much of space is unregulated.