Fire in cockpit with ipad

[Vance Harral]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

There are two kinds of emergency descent:

1. Straight ahead, cruise configuration, push to descend a d stabilize airspeed just below Vne. I'll save this for an external engine fire, hoping to blow it out.

2. Eeuce power, bank 45° and spiral down rapidly at cruise airspeed. This has pegged my IVSI at well over 2000 fpm, plenty fast enough from my typical 7-10K cruising altitude. 

Not only does the second get me down quicker, it's also more fun to do! And doesn't require keeping as close of an eye on the ASI or anything else on the panel.

Excellent summary.

I'm skeptical about using high airspeed to "blow the fire out", even for an engine fire, given the physics of combustion in the presence of plentiful oxygen.  I'm sure there are cases where it works, though, and some POH/AFMs specifically prescribe doing so.  But I think you want to analyze the details as best as you can in a stressful situation.  e.g. high airspeed is not going to "blow out" a cabin fire driven by a burning LiPo battery, better to go straight to technique #2.

Unless the POH/AFM specifically prohibits it, I demonstrate emergency descents to my students at idle power, 45+ degrees of bank, all drag devices deployed (gear, flaps, etc), and a full-rudder slip, at the maximum airspeed which doesn't exceed gear and flap limits.  Every piston airplane I've done this in pegs the VSI at 2000+ fpm, which is a significantly higher descent rate than I can achieve with any other configuration/technique.  As we demonstrate/practice this technique, I explain to the student that if the airplane were actually on fire, there's a good chance I would elect to exceed the gear and/or flap airspeed limits; but that it's a gut feel personal choice, because we just don't know how much margin is built into the limits or what the effect of a failure would be on controllability.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Vance Harral said:

Unless the POH/AFM specifically prohibits it, I demonstrate emergency descents to my students at idle power, 45+ degrees of bank, all drag devices deployed (gear, flaps, etc), and a full-rudder slip, at the maximum airspeed which doesn't exceed gear and flap limits.  

Keep the flaps and gear up, bank 45°, then lower the nose to get back to cruise airspeed or higher if necessary. This will be a faster descent rate than going slower.

If I'm in an emergency descent, I'm going to prioritize getting on the ground, so the higher the descent rate the better. Level off, aim for somewhere open and relatively flat, drop flaps and gear and set her down. 

[Vance Harral]

37 minutes ago, Hank said:

Keep the flaps and gear up, bank 45°, then lower the nose to get back to cruise airspeed or higher if necessary. This will be a faster descent rate than going slower.

This has not been my experience.

Agree that maximizing descent rate is the goal.  In the airplanes in which I've practiced emergency descents, it is not possible to peg the VSI in the clean configuration at Vno.  It might be possible at Vne, but I choose not to do this as the air is rarely smooth during the training exercises.  In contrast, it is easy to peg the VSI with gear and flaps out at airspeeds below Vfe/Vle, particularly while employing a max-rudder slip.

My data points are from Cessna 152/172/182, Piper PA-28, Mooney M20F and older.  I also fly a BE-76 Duchess whose emergency descent procedure explicitly requires extending the landing gear.  I don't have emergency descent experience in other aircraft, including long-body Mooneys.  I can easily believe this is an airframe-specific thing, happy to hear from others.  I don't know the Vle value for the M20M and later models, but I vaguely recall it was pretty high.  Some aircraft have very high Vle speeds up to Vno/Vne, and I can't image it makes any sense to keep the gear up in these airplanes during an emergency descent.

[Austintatious]

Spiraling out of the sky is great and all if you happen to be above an airport.  I will get started down and towards the closest airport... If I cant get down before I make it to that airport, I can spiral down once I am above it.   If it is a bit further away, I will make my decent rate such that I get to the airport as I reach pattern altitude... If I need to carry power to keep my speed up, so be it.

Obviously if you are on fire and it is growing rapidly well, any ground is preferable.  

I am  tossing my Ipad out the door if it catches fire... Id rather burn my hand than be in the cockpit with a lithium battery fire while trying to do an emergency decent .  No way I am tossing it into the back seat.  If I can do that, I can open the door and slide it out.

Bare in mind, unless you are charging it... it is not likely to break out into flames immediately... More than likely you will see it begin to smoke before there are flames.  That's when Ill be setting it free!

Edited November 16 by Austintatious

[Jackk]

11 hours ago, Austintatious said:

And you think grabbing it and shoving it into a fire bag will be easier somehow?   

There’s a reason all the good kits (like the one I posted) have at least gloves too  

[McMooney]

you know thinking about it, most likely the ipad in front of me will be the LAST thing to catch fire, what about one of the other 5 or 6 lithium items,  2 phones, power bank,  backup ipad, laptop, garmin gdl, wrist watch, action cam, etc, oh yeah lithium AAs

[Hank]

5 hours ago, Austintatious said:

a lithium battery fire while trying to do an emergency decent .  No way I am tossing it into the back seat.  If I can do that, I can open the door and slide it out.

Try opening your door in the pattern at a nice, slow pattern speed. Then make a normal landing, close the door, takeoff and leave the pattern; return near your typical cruise speed and try to open the door. Slow down and make a normal landing.

Did your door open far enough to shove out a burning iPad? My money is on "NO." Of course, you can hold your cool, non-burning iPad and twist it around while leaning over the empty right seat.and manage to get it out the narrow opening, but you won't have the time (and may not have the empty right seat) to do that with a burning piece of electronics. 

[Immelman]

On 11/13/2025 at 1:48 PM, Andy95W said:

Just a thought- Every day, thousands of airline pilots are flying with thousands of iPads safely, and most of them are plugged into a charger. 

Aye, and at my airline I have within arm's reach a burn bag for electronic devices. Specifically our iPad pros. In the cabin, an even larger burn bag designed to fit a passenger's laptop computer or other device.

These are rather robust, heavy duty bags that come with their own set of high temperature gloves to handle the device with. They are quite robust and would take a fair amount of room in the confines of a GA airplane.

Edited November 17 by Immelman

[McMooney]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Try opening your door in the pattern at a nice, slow pattern speed. Then make a normal landing, close the door, takeoff and leave the pattern; return near your typical cruise speed and try to open the door. Slow down and make a normal landing.

Did your door open far enough to shove out a burning iPad? My money is on "NO." Of course, you can hold your cool, non-burning iPad and twist it around while leaning over the empty right seat.and manage to get it out the narrow opening, but you won't have the time (and may not have the empty right seat) to do that with a burning piece of electronics. 

I've left the door unlocked once or twice, the door can be opened far enough to toss out a device.  It can also be shut and locked without landing ( way more difficult ) .

 

[PBones]

You mean to tell me that these 600 dollar devices are designed to just burst into flames? I have a variety of laptops, tablets and phones and have never even felt them get overly warm when in use. After 5 years of use, its probably time to upgrade (I read here folks are using 7-9 year old devices)

Shut off all non essential apps running in the background when flying especially facebook and other social media BS. I only run Foreflight period on my "airplane only" tablet, zero other apps and have never felt it get more than warm, the battery will last much longer too. I also use a matte screen saver film to minimize sun glare, it works well. 

I also do not turn the tablet on until I am ready to depart (I make sure all of my flight plans are ready to go before getting to the airport and get all weather on my phone prior to taxiing)

[Austintatious]

12 hours ago, Jackk said:

There’s a reason all the good kits (like the one I posted) have at least gloves too  

I am aware they come with gloves.   I just don't see most people having such a kit in a small aircraft.   I mean, more power to you if you plan to keep one around and available at all times.  In an airplane where tossing it out the door is an option, Ill just do that.  

In the plane I fly professionally, there is no tossing it out, we have no other option, so we have the bag and gloves.

[Jackk]

2 hours ago, Austintatious said:

I am aware they come with gloves.   I just don't see most people having such a kit in a small aircraft.   I mean, more power to you if you plan to keep one around and available at all times.  In an airplane where tossing it out the door is an option, Ill just do that.  

In the plane I fly professionally, there is no tossing it out, we have no other option, so we have the bag and gloves.

 Thing is if it’s actually really on fire I’d wager 90% of people won’t have the pain tolerance to do that bare handed, we’re talking like 1,000 degrees F here

 

For me in not concerned enough in my planes, with me and mine in them, that someone is going to roll a seat over a phone or something to carry any of that stuff.