Let's buy Mooney - Crowdsourced Version - Straw dog.

[Yetti]

If you were to receive 1 Share of Mooney stock for every Dollar you put in, how much of your hard earned dollars would you put in.

I will start with $5,000.00

[Immelman]

That depends: Exactly how many shares of Mooney stock will exist after the buyout?

[Yetti]

8 minutes ago, Immelman said:

That depends: Exactly how many shares of Mooney stock will exist after the buyout?

New company will be formed in the Newco Mooney Company that will buy the factory and extinguish all existing shares in the company.  The total amount of shares authorized and issued for Newco Mooney will be equal to the amount of dollars received in this first round. 

[MikeOH]

The real, and critical, unknown here is just HOW MUCH MONEY Mooney needs to be 'resurrected.  Then, there's going to be some kind of Laffer type curve of the number of Mooney 'investors' based on the share price point to raise that amount.

So, how many millions do you think Mooney needs to be on solid 'ground'?

[Yetti]

How about we go with the factory is worth what any given group of people will pay on a given day.   I am rejecting the current owners need to make a profit on their investment model. If the straw dog can come up with a million, then that is what the factory is worth.

[IvanP]

Crowdsouring is an interesting option, but it does not really adddress continuity of operation. What would the proposed management and operating structure look like after the buyout? What would be Lasar's proposed role, if any, in this?

One-time capital investment will not address the issues that led to the current situation. 

Edited October 23 by IvanP

[MikeOH]

13 minutes ago, Yetti said:

How about we go with the factory is worth what any given group of people will pay on a given day. 

I just don't see how that trite aphorism helps much.  The size of the number matters!

14 minutes ago, Yetti said:

If the straw dog can come up with a million

Fine, use $1,000,000.  How many Mooneys are flying?  5,000?  If half of them will drop $400, we're there.  Thing is, I think $1 million is low but, admittedly, I'm not sure what a good number is; hence, my question.

If the number is really $10 million, then it's going to get tough.  That's $4,000 from half the Mooney owners.  I don't think that's going to happen.  In eight years I've only needed one $650 factory part.

[1980Mooney]

39 minutes ago, Yetti said:

New company will be formed in the Newco Mooney Company that will buy the factory and extinguish all existing shares in the company.  The total amount of shares authorized and issued for Newco Mooney will be equal to the amount of dollars received in this first round. 

When you say "Buy The Factory" and "Extinguish All Existing Shares" it sounds like your "straw dog" is proposing to buy only the Assets of Mooney.

1. There is liability both on and off the Balance Sheet.  Mooney has the liability related to the planes that they made since 2007 per GARA.  There may be other on-balance sheet liabilities.  In order to "extinguish" those liabilities and the stock, they will need to go through Bankruptcy.
2. Mooney does not own the factory building.  They lease the premises from the Kerrville City/County Airport Authority. They own the tools, jigs and inventory in the "factory".  Mooney has made improvements to the "factory" premises over time but they do not own those improvements - those are "leashold improvements" that stay with the City/County should Mooney move out.

[PeterRus]

If memory serves, Mooney was up for sale a few (2-ish?) years ago for $15mm. No takers, apparently. Rumor has it the prod certificates for airplanes (or whatever they are called) are nice, but useless: too much manual labour in the cage, and no CAPS alternative yet. The trainer (M10T) isn't there. 

So, most money are in the support of diminishing fleet of C/J and maybe O/A Mooneys. 

I have no idea what the salvage value of the company is, but maybe around $5mm if that? Add to that operational capital for a year or so... I don't envy Lasar, and I appreciate their struggle. 

[Yetti]

y'all are killing the straw dog.   apparently the factory is only worth $5,000.00 so far. 

[Yetti]

[hazek]

2 hours ago, Yetti said:

If you were to receive 1 Share of Mooney stock for every Dollar you put in, how much of your hard earned dollars would you put in.

Zero.

I would never consider being a minority shareholder in a struggling company. It's a waste of money. The stock is worthless and I would have no power to change the management or the direction of the company. Never throw good money after bad.

1 hour ago, IvanP said:

Crowdsouring is an interesting option, but it does not really adddress continuity of operation. What would the proposed management and operating structure look like after the buyout? What would be Lasar's proposed role, if any, in this?

One-time capital investment will not address the issues that led to the current situation. 

Exactly. Crowdsourcing would only be interesting if it meant the old owners would be gone completely, and the management of the scheme taking over would be ran by someone competent with a proven track record of results as well as that had a sensible vision for the future.

[Yetti]

13 minutes ago, hazek said:

Zero.

I would never consider being a minority shareholder in a struggling company. It's a waste of money. The stock is worthless and I would have no power to change the management or the direction of the company. Never throw good money after bad.

Depending on how much you put in vs. how much all the others put in, you could be the majority owner.

[IvanP]

24 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Depending on how much you put in vs. how much all the others put in, you could be the majority owner.

And then what? Ownership change without operating capital and sound business strategy will not fix Mooney;s problems. 

[Yetti]

20 minutes ago, IvanP said:

And then what? Ownership change without operating capital and sound business strategy will not fix Mooney;s problems. 

Well since I am the Majority Owner right now.

First thing would be go to Kerr County and ask for Tax Abatement.

1. create a supply/upgrade of needed parts  Cowl Air boots (redone in silicone)

2. upgrade the  Moritz gauges with a Single board Computer and TFT screen

3. Factory program with Garmin to replace/upgrade the G1000 systems.

4. Look for Space X contracts

5. Factory refresh program to existing air frames.   Interiors by Hector, have a supply of engines so you could fly in and have a new engine in a week.   Paint not sure about. 

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, Yetti said:

 have a supply of engines so you could fly in and have a new engine in a week.   Paint not sure about. 

It would be better to have a contract with Lycoming and Continental for priority of engine deliveries. Then you don't tie up scarce capital in large chunks by having engines sitting in the warehouse--and you don't have to worry about stocking the wrong variant(s).

[Vance Harral]

I'm in for $5K as shareholder #2, provided I can be a silent investor with no actual responsibilities such as decision making, attending meetings, or really doing any kind of work at all.  Basically I want the same responsibility as when I buy a share of any other company on the open stock market.  I delegate all "authority" my ownership buys me to @Yetti

I am 100% serious about this.  If Mooney owners were actually able to purchase the assets of Mooney, I'd contribute $5K just for the amusement value.

[Yetti]

I would also take the Mooney TX-1 design turn it into a crop spraying drone.   Also put some hard points on it then sell a bunch of copies of to Ukraine. 

Then use the proceeds to bring to market as a trainer.     Training schools are paying $150K-$250K for a clapped out C172

 

[Yetti]

15 minutes ago, Hank said:

It would be better to have a contract with Lycoming and Continental for priority of engine deliveries. Then you don't tie up scarce capital in large chunks by having engines sitting in the warehouse--and you don't have to worry about stocking the wrong variant(s).

Oh the contract would be written such that we are just a warehouse for the engines and they get paid when we hang it.    O360  IO360 IO550   

Would have to think about inhousing of the Rocket Manufacturing support. 

[00-Negative]

20 minutes ago, Vance Harral said:

I'm in for $5K as shareholder #2, provided I can be a silent investor with no actual responsibilities such as decision making, attending meetings, or really doing any kind of work at all.  Basically I want the same responsibility as when I buy a share of any other company on the open stock market.  I delegate all "authority" my ownership buys me to @Yetti

I am 100% serious about this.  If Mooney owners were actually able to purchase the assets of Mooney, I'd contribute $5K just for the amusement value.

Exactly where I stand. Could not have stated it better. Easily in for $5k. 

-David

[EricJ]

Good luck on getting engines.   I just went through trying to get price and availability on various IO-360 and IO-390 models for my airplane, and lead times are still years, usually 2-3 years.   This was after talking to our local Lycoming distributor and also our local overhaul shop.  Even angle valve cylinders are still a problem.

[IvanP]

35 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Well since I am the Majority Owner right now.

First thing would be go to Kerr County and ask for Tax Abatement.

1. create a supply/upgrade of needed parts  Cowl Air boots (redone in silicone)

2. upgrade the  Moritz gauges with a Single board Computer and TFT screen

3. Factory program with Garmin to replace/upgrade the G1000 systems.

4. Look for Space X contracts

5. Factory refresh program to existing air frames.   Interiors by Hector, have a supply of engines so you could fly in and have a new engine in a week.   Paint not sure about. 

Interesting plan. Any thoughts about how much money and manpower would you need to get this rolling? 

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Oh the contract would be written such that we are just a warehouse for the engines and they get paid when we hang it.    O360  IO360 IO550   

Would have to think about inhousing of the Rocket Manufacturing support. 

But there are several IO-360 versions flying in Mooneys, and some have aftermarket turbo normalization. 

So no Bravos (aren't they IO-520?), and no IO-540 either.

Sadly, all the stuff after the cubic inches is important when the engine is hung on an airplane. I have to have an O-360-A1D, but there are many O-360 variants flying on airplanes, and probably two or three on Mooneys (don't Ds converted to retract and variable speed prop use a different one tham mine?).

[Yetti]

35 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Good luck on getting engines.   I just went through trying to get price and availability on various IO-360 and IO-390 models for my airplane, and lead times are still years, usually 2-3 years.   This was after talking to our local Lycoming distributor and also our local overhaul shop.  Even angle valve cylinders are still a problem.

I think it could be done if some cores were bought and supplied to the Lycoming and Continental people and we signed up as a volume dealer.   the point being that people want this as a service.   There are a whole bunch of Ovations that are original engines.   Doing as a assembly line vs. one off brings economy of scale and would put you first in line with the Engine Manufacture.   I would have too guess Textron and Cirrus don't have airframes sitting around waiting on engines. 

[1980Mooney]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

 

57 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Well since I am the Majority Owner right now.

First thing would be go to Kerr County and ask for Tax Abatement.

 

They are effectively doing that.  If you do into the Kerrville County Central Appraisal District page that you copied above you will see that Mooney has not paid their property taxes for 2025 which were due in January, 2025.

And half of the items above, totaling $3.37 million are "leasehold improvements" (on Mooney's Balance Sheet as an "asset") which Mooney loses if they move out of the facility to save money.  Ironically, they have to pay property taxes every year on those improvements.