Lopresti Super 201 cowling

[SkyPilot]

Ok, so I still have not decided where to get more speed. Turbo, different airplane, new cowling, etc. The list is fairly long and the prices vary. It's hard to decide where to spend the hard-earned cash.  I paid my airplane off in June and like the "no payment" situation.  This makes modifying more appealing than replacing.

I'm looking at the LoPresti cowling mod (and yeah, I'd have to do the windshield, oil cooler, spinner too) and they are claiming 13 to 14 mph on an F Model. http://www.speedmods.com/M20-list.htm I figure that with the windshield, oil cooler, and cowling all installed, I'm looking at $25,000 minimum. I might get 15 or 16 mph out of the two mods combined. That would be enough to satisfy me but I would be cranky if I didn't get the speed as advertised.

 

[aerobat95]

When I called about that cowling about 6 months ago they quoted me I want to say around 20K or 25K and that was just for thw cowling.  You still needed to have the 201 style windshield.  I told them they were out of their minds.  ARI makes a cowling mod that kinda looks like a 201.  Relatively cheap and it would replace the spinner with a 201 style spinner.  On my airplane I have the lower cowling enclosure, the oil cooler relocation mod, and a 201 windshield.  I have a few other speed mods as well and I typically see around 156TAS.  I also looked into the turbo by M-20.  The catch is it will not work without modifying the cowling to a 201 style.  Good luck doing that.  I can be done but the parts are hard to find and the paperwork would be a nightmare.  Maybe someplace like TOP GUN AVIATION could do it as they have done it to theirs.  I'd like to squeek a few more knots out of mine as well.  I was thinking about doing the complete tail mod....I figure that might get me 1 knot and cost me about 1.5K.  Let me know what you do....I would definately be interested.

[aerobat95]

What you might consider is ditching the 3 blade and going with a top prop conversion.  I am not sure what they run these days but they look pretty cool and I hear good things about them performance wise.

[Oscar Avalle]

Quote: aerobat95

What you might consider is ditching the 3 blade and going with a top prop conversion.  I am not sure what they run these days but they look pretty cool and I hear good things about them performance wise.

[Piloto]

Have you though about selling your M20F and getting an M20J? For what you are going to spend in mods may as well get a 201. No matter how many mods you do to your M20F it will still sell as an M20F and you will not recover the money invested in it. It may sound cruel but that's the market reality.

José

 

 

[rbridges]

Quote: Piloto

Have you though about selling your M20F and getting an M20J? For what you are going to spend in mods may as well get a 201. No matter how many mods you do to your M20F it will still sell as an M20F and you will not recover the money invested in it. It may sound cruel but that's the market reality.

José

 

 

[aerobat95]

all good points....but I would argue if you plan on keeping it....do the mods and enjoy.  At least you know what you have.  Buying a new plane you get to some degree the unknown.  Plus you have to sell your bird which would be a hastle.  People seem to be always worried about the bottom line.  If everyone was like that you would never see a restored '67 Mustang Fastback or a '57 Chevy.  Those guys all have a ton more money then they will ever get.  Its about the passion of having something that you pieced together and the thrill of making something better.  I know for me I like taking something stock and making it better.  I did it with my two Mustangs (cars) and I am doing it with my '74F.  I didn't get nearly what I put into my Mustangs and if I sell my plane someday I am sure I won't get what I put into it either.  But, I enjoyed it.  At some point we all will need to do it for the passion of owning a Mooney....they aren't making any new ones and they will all be classics one day.

[aerobat95]

oh and here is a link for the top prop conversion

http://www.hartzellprop.com/top_prop_details.php?id=104

[aerobat95]

Hey Jim....I have not yet flown my Habu 32.....still in the process of getting parts for it.  Havent gotten the power plant yet.  Looking at the Tamjets EDF.  From what I read it will push it to around 160MPH

[Oscar Avalle]

Quote: aerobat95

oh and here is a link for the top prop conversion

http://www.hartzellprop.com/top_prop_details.php?id=104

[scottfromiowa]

I would seriously consider going the J route vs. doing the conversion for reasons stated.  That said I REALLY Love the function and improvement of the LoPresti cowl...but NOT the expense.  I really wanted a boom beam and at the time the light had been out (STC'd for Mooney) for years.  I could NOT get them to budge on pricing...so I bought the XE-Vision HID (more candle power for 1/2 the price)...The cowl has also been out for years.  I understand the development and production costs, but most products the price drops with time and demand.  Once the price point (new and exciting) wears off why not reduce the price with time to attract new buyers to your product?  I can't imagine that the production costs are close to the add on price of the cowl...and installation is a bear based on talking with my A&P.  Your plane would look fantastic with the cowl, but I would use the money on acquiring a J instead...Fun to dream though.  On a sad note CID had two FBO's and the FBO that my avionics guru worked with was acquired...He choose to leave and is heading to the Dakota's with family.  No price competition for fuel at CID anymore....gulp.

[DaV8or]

Some reasons not to trade for a J-

Your F has manual gear and hydraulic flaps.

You've spent a lot of time and money upgrading the panel, interior, or paint.

You've had your F a good while and really know it inside and out.

 

Basically, once you start down the road of modding and upgrading an airplane, it's all money down a hole and you're not getting it back. You do it for the same reason you bought the plane, personal enjoyment. If you're truely worried about your investment, you should not have ever bought an airplane!

The Lo Presti cowl is super cool and I wish I could have one. I like pretty much everything about it, but the cost is staggering. I would investigate getting a used real 201 cowl from a salvage plane and going that route. It will still be very expensive, but I would guess about half the Lo Presti cost. I think all it takes is a shop/A&P AI with a good relationship with the local FSDO. I think a field approval is what's needed.

I think Mod Works had an STC for this, but it blew away in a hurricane. Somebody needs to do the STC again if possible. There are plenty of Js being scrapped now, so it would be nice to be able to use the cowls.

[AmigOne]

With a bit of help from mother nature my 1968 Ranger can be very fast...I had a J years ago and 2 C's since then.  The only thing I would miss is the ability to carry 4 people semi-comfortably, other than that I'm very happy with my stock Ranger.  I bought a panel conversion from Lasar but I haven't installed it yet and might never do it. I have good avionics for safe IFR, a solid engine (650hrs), overhauled prop with no AD and excellent paint.  For me cosmetics inside and out are a must.  An old plane has to show well.  BTW, I have already painted the clock light, it was driving me crazy all the way from California on the ferry flight.  I have also painted the panel overlay white, the imitation wood was not nice.

[rahawk]

I have a 64 'E' and have also been reviewing the options on cowl upgrades.  I am always involved in all maintenance on my Super 21, and will not loose those avionics access panels.  So my choice is the ARI, as it cleans up the nose area, and retains the access panels.  If I get a speed increase that's great, but not really the driver.  Recently upgraded an original JPI scanner to EDM 700 with fuel flow.  The access panels really made the panel work and routing of wires and rerouting of other items much easier.  enjoy!

[jetdriven]

This was our first trip out in our new 201. My wife had previously been poking around in 99 knot Cessna's and this thing was burning it up. We were dang near to Houston and she was still somewhere west of San Marcos.  And having to start down 45 miles out was something new as well.

 

I told her, it said "201" right there on the wingtip.

[FloridaMan]

I have a '67 F with the LoPresti cowling. I have yet to take a cross-country flight at less than 150kts GPS Ground speed with winds (I've also cruised along nicely at over 170kts over the ground). The previous owner said the airplane was 158kts true, but I'm not exactly certain yet. At low altitude, you'll see 29" MP and the airplane will have no trouble hitting 165-175kts running wide open. As a disclaimer, my airplane also has the powerflow exhaus, GAMI injectors, gap seals and a couple misc other speed mods. 

I believe that most of the price of the cowling is the installation labor. 

[flight2000]

I know I've posted this before, but I always like going back to it.  What a day that was...

I've never been intrigued by the full cowl enclosure.  You can't move the red line in the end and the yellow arc is still there, so what are you really gaining in the end?  The lower cowl enclosure has done fine on mine and temps on the cylinders are always cool, so I will keep mine as is.  $20K+ for a nose job is a little excessive for me...

Brian

[rbridges]

Quote: flight2000

I know I've posted this before, but I always like going back to it.  What a day that was...

I've never been intrigued by the full cowl enclosure.  You can't move the red line in the end and the yellow arc is still there, so what are you really gaining in the end?  The lower cowl enclosure has done fine on mine and temps on the cylinders are always cool, so I will keep mine as is.  $20K+ for a nose job is a little excessive for me...

Brian

[Hank]

Quote: Antares

I have a '67 F with the LoPresti cowling. I have yet to take a cross-country flight at less than 150kts GPS Ground speed with winds (I've also cruised along nicely at over 170kts over the ground). The previous owner said the airplane was 158kts true, but I'm not exactly certain yet. At low altitude, you'll see 29" MP and the airplane will have no trouble hitting 165-175kts running wide open. As a disclaimer, my airplane also has the powerflow exhaus, GAMI injectors, gap seals and a couple misc other speed mods. 

I believe that most of the price of the cowling is the installation labor. 

[flight2000]

Quote: rbridges

212K ground speed?  Were you in a nose dive?  

[FloridaMan]

Quote: Hank

Your F is just a little faster than my C, but I've kept an F in sight for ~45 trip [KCMH --> KHTW]. My sustained cruising groundspeed on trips has varied from a high of 183 knots to a low of <95 knots, bottoming out at 68 knots. Tain't much fun flying at highway speeds, but crossing the Appalachians between Greenville and Knoxville to avoid ice on the direct route, you take what you get and descend when terrain permits. 10K = 68 kts; 9K = 95kts; 6K = 120 kts.

Don't know what you're doing [or where you're going] to only have a 20-knot groundspeed spread. When I flew west to the Rockies and back, I averaged ~127 kts westbound and ~151 kts eastbound, pretty respectable for a 140-knot plane.