Best $200k(ish) Airplane?

[Jetter2]

Hey Gang!

I’m a 250hr IFR pilot that is looking to buy in the next year or so. I am looking for a stable XC machine that can tackle a 500nm trip in ~ 3hrs = a 160kt airplane.

I am currently in a flying club that has 3 of the 180hp C172s and a pair of Archers.

Overall - I love the 180hp C172s for regional trips. Bumping around ATL isn’t bad, but spending 5hrs to fly to Detroit, 4hrs to Pittsburg, 4hrs to south Florida - the ole backside starts to hurt! That being said, I am looking for something faster and I want to "buy my 2nd plane - first". 

 

I plan on flying back home to DFW once or twice a year and that is 650nm from ATL. 

 

For ~ $220k - I can get a 100% turnkey Cardinal RG.   I love the high wing, the doors are 4ft wide, and the cabin is 48in wide. The Turnbonormalizer doesn't affect TBO - and folks are reporting 175kts @ 17k on 10gph.  Can any Mooney really compete with this efficiency? 

 

I am not a fan of nose-hoses, but having a built in system is nice.  I don't really do much high-altitude stuff being ATL based- but with winter time being here - my eyes turn to TKS setups as well.  

 

The Bravo looks really compelling - but man is it a thirsty plane!  Being ATL based and never really needing to go over 8k (The Appalachian Mountains aren't very tall) - I really like the numbers of a TKS Ovation.

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 01:52 PM by Jetter2

[AJ88V]

Popcorn.

In for the show, as I'm considering the same thing (though much more likely to just upgrade the panel).

[1980Mooney]

It’s pretty simple. You won’t find a TKS Ovation or a Bravo in your price range constraint. 

[Utah20Gflyer]

I think a M20k would match the performance numbers of the turbo Cardinal and hit your budget requirements.  

[Jetter2]

1 hour ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

I think a M20k would match the performance numbers of the turbo Cardinal and hit your budget requirements.  

100% right - looks to use the same engine as well.

 

I tend to avoid oxygen levels (the wife isn't a fan of nose-hoses) so it looks like I am leaning more towards the Ovation.  The Cardinal is a 150kt airplane down low. 

Edited Monday at 03:47 PM by Jetter2

[bcg]

While a Bravo is thirsty, it's also fast. Think of it in miles per gallon instead of gallons per hour and it gets a lot more efficient.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[bigmo]

I don't think a Cardinal is going to do 175 knots if you point it straight at the ground. The one I flew for a while could eek out 140 knots (IO-360). Nice easy plane to fly though. Thinking back, it was more like 135 unless we fed it all the gas we could.

With your distance mission, almost any Mooney will serve you well. The difference of a J (or even pre-J) over a high dollar Bravo on a 500nm trip is pretty insignificant. Two of my kids live 700nm from our home base. If my wife can manage her fluid intake, we can do the trip non-stop in under 5 hours in my F. Even if we stop, it's 6 hours. Easy peasy.

Since elevation isn't a major concern, you probably would be really happy in a newish J with a nice panel and nice aesthetics. I would also not shy away from a later gen SR20. $220K seems to be about the entry point for an SR20 that's pretty turn-key.

I'm using my F at kind of the limit of where a faster plane makes sense (700ish nm). But, it sure beats driving. For us, we can visit the kids on any normal weekend we want vice driving 18 hours each way. A no brainer.

 

 

[Rwsavory]

1 hour ago, Jetter2 said:

Hey Gang!

I’m a 250hr IFR pilot that is looking to buy in the next year or so. I am looking for a stable XC machine that can tackle a 500nm trip in ~ 3hrs = a 160kt airplane.

I am currently in a flying club that has 3 of the 180hp C172s and a pair of Archers.

Overall - I love the 180hp C172s for regional trips. Bumping around ATL isn’t bad, but spending 5hrs to fly to Detroit, 4hrs to Pittsburg, 4hrs to south Florida - the ole backside starts to hurt! That being said, I am looking for something faster and I want to "buy my 2nd plane - first". 

 

I plan on flying back home to DFW once or twice a year and that is 650nm from ATL. 

 

For ~ $220k - I can get a 100% turnkey Cardinal RG.   I love the high wing, the doors are 4ft wide, and the cabin is 48in wide. The Turnbonormalizer doesn't affect TBO - and folks are reporting 175kts @ 17k on 10gph.  Can any Mooney really compete with this efficiency? 

 

I am not a fan of nose-hoses, but having a built in system is nice.  I don't really do much high-altitude stuff being ATL based- but with winter time being here - my eyes turn to TKS setups as well.  

 

The Bravo looks really compelling - but man is it a thirsty plane!  Being ATL based and never really needing to go over 8k (The Appalachian Mountains aren't very tall) - I really like the numbers of a TKS Ovation.

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

 https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/239408597/1969-beechcraft-e33a-bonanza-piston-single-aircraft

[AJ88V]

1 hour ago, bcg said:

While a Bravo is thirsty, it's also fast. Think of it in miles per gallon instead of gallons per hour and it gets a lot more efficient.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk
 

Trying to match @Jetter2's stated "175kts @ 17k on 10gph" is going to be hard.  That efficiency mostly matches my M20C (without the speed).  Seems very high to me, but Aviation Consumer writes

• You can turn the airplane into a fast flight level flyer with a turbonormalizing system from Tornado Alley Turbo at www.taturbo.com. When we reviewed the mod in a flight trial way back in the May 2009 Aviation Consumer we saw 177 knots (cool coincidence) at 17,500 feet. North of $40,000, the mod won’t be worth it to many for a four-place single in this price segment, but it will for some and we think they won’t be disappointed.  
• The TAO411 turbo, which is responsible for 800 FPM climbs to 17,500 feet. Trimmed out and pulled back to 80 percent power, it’ll do 177 knots on 10.8 GPH.

Next to the C 140 and the old round engined Cessnas, always thought the Cardinal RG was the prettiest of the lot.  Not sure how many turbonormalized birds there are on the market.

[hubcap]

I think the K meets your requirements. 

[Pinecone]

Hard to believe that a turbo normalized Cardinal will do 175 knots.  My 252/Encore is a 175 KTAS at 17,000 on 10.1 GPH.

[WilliamR]

Fellow ATL pilot @Jetter2, I think the Cardinal numbers are a bit ambitious but not overly so for a TN'd version. Note, they do not have the same engine as a Mooney M20K. A 201 with TKS (I assume a non-FIKI version would be acceptable) would probably be your best bet for =<$200 and is definitely faster than a Cardinal (payload may be a different story if that matters). An older Ovation or a Bonanza like the one listed above would also be a greater contender.

An SR20 won't go anywhere near as fast as you want/need and would be the slowest of the ones I mention. Yes, it's slower than a TN'd 177. It's about as fast as a NA'd 177...~135 knots.

If you have no plans to fly above 10,000' then I would probably steer away from anything TN'd or turbo'ed. I totally get not being excited about oxygen (two decade turbo Mooney owner who regularly flies above 10,000' speaking from experience). 

Are you on any hangar wait lists? If not, and you want a hangar, you can't get on a list early enough. You probably know that already, though.

William

[Jetter2]

6 minutes ago, AJ88V said:

Trying to match @Jetter2's stated "175kts @ 17k on 10gph" is going to be hard.  That efficiency mostly matches my M20C (without the speed).  Seems very high to me, but Aviation Consumer writes

• You can turn the airplane into a fast flight level flyer with a turbonormalizing system from Tornado Alley Turbo at www.taturbo.com. When we reviewed the mod in a flight trial way back in the May 2009 Aviation Consumer we saw 177 knots (cool coincidence) at 17,500 feet. North of $40,000, the mod won’t be worth it to many for a four-place single in this price segment, but it will for some and we think they won’t be disappointed.  
• The TAO411 turbo, which is responsible for 800 FPM climbs to 17,500 feet. Trimmed out and pulled back to 80 percent power, it’ll do 177 knots on 10.8 GPH.

Next to the C 140 and the old road engine Cessnas, always though the Cardinal RG was the prettiest of the lot.  Not sure how many turbonormalized birds there are on the market.

I cant get over how pretty the Cardinal looks. 

The best part of the 177 is they moved the wing back, so if you lean forward a little bit - you can see into your turns.   Couple that with a low ground stance and 4ft wide doors (cabin width is 48in as well) - and its just a big cabin that is easy to get in and out.  It has the Stabilator so I feel like they did a LOT of things right with the Cardinal.  The folks over at CFO have speed mods on their NA birds and are seeing 150kts KTAS on 10gph  (IO360).

I also really like the Commander - but they are kinda slow for what they are. 

 

[dkkim73]

I have only a few hours in a Cardinal but always thought they were a really nice plane, in a certain niche. A TN version is an interesting concept. 

I'm a huge fan of TKS but the last time I lived in GA I was 10 yrs old, so I'll leave it to the SE folks to opine about utility there. Total necessity for my uses and FIKI is a complete game-changer in terms of dispatch rate. 

My own experience is that the "nose hose" is not nearly as big a deal as I would  have imagined. My wife has used it only a few times but didn't have an issue. I will say the comfort is *way* better with an on-demand system, you are not continuously blasting dry gas into your nostrils to maintain sats. 

I focused my attention on the 6-cylinder planes early in the search, but in your case, from reading the board for a year, I would think a J or K might work well. If you can find TKS (esp. FIKI if you need it), which I think can be rarer in those models. 

That Bo (E33) looks like a great deal. The TKS might be non-FIKI, if that matters, so worth an inquiry. Cost of ownership might be higher, from tales I've heard, but hopefully someone here who's owned one can weight in. 

HTH!

 

[Utah20Gflyer]

1 hour ago, Jetter2 said:

100% right - looks to use the same engine as well.

 

I tend to avoid oxygen levels (the wife isn't a fan of nose-hoses) so it looks like I am leaning more towards the Ovation.  The Cardinal is a 150kt airplane down low. 

175kts at 10gph is going to be something you only get while sucking the O2. 

[Shiroyuki]

2 hours ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

I think a M20k would match the performance numbers of the turbo Cardinal and hit your budget requirements.  

Cardinal has turbo??

[Shiroyuki]

33 minutes ago, dkkim73 said:

I have only a few hours in a Cardinal but always thought they were a really nice plane, in a certain niche. A TN version is an interesting concept. 

I'm a huge fan of TKS but the last time I lived in GA I was 10 yrs old, so I'll leave it to the SE folks to opine about utility there. Total necessity for my uses and FIKI is a complete game-changer in terms of dispatch rate. 

My own experience is that the "nose hose" is not nearly as big a deal as I would  have imagined. My wife has used it only a few times but didn't have an issue. I will say the comfort is *way* better with an on-demand system, you are not continuously blasting dry gas into your nostrils to maintain sats. 

I focused my attention on the 6-cylinder planes early in the search, but in your case, from reading the board for a year, I would think a J or K might work well. If you can find TKS (esp. FIKI if you need it), which I think can be rarer in those models. 

That Bo (E33) looks like a great deal. The TKS might be non-FIKI, if that matters, so worth an inquiry. Cost of ownership might be higher, from tales I've heard, but hopefully someone here who's owned one can weight in. 

HTH!

 

I heard the TKS FIKI vs non FIKI makes no difference in actual anti ice capability. Only difference is FIKI version have 2 pumps and 2 alternator?

I'm always curious how someone is going to fly a non FIKI TKS plane. As I was taught when there is visible moisture and outside air temperature is below 0, it is going to have ice. So for how I was taught, any cloud in winter time is known icing. So do people with non FIKI TKS just fly into icing condition regardless if it is known? Or people interprelate what known icing in a certain way to some icing not "known"? I'm curious.

Living in Northern Ontario I'd love to get a TKS system, but only non fiki version if avalible for J and early K. Late model K and long body with FIKI goes for more then what I'm willing to pay for.

[Max Clark]

3 hours ago, Jetter2 said:

Hey Gang!

I’m a 250hr IFR pilot that is looking to buy in the next year or so. I am looking for a stable XC machine that can tackle a 500nm trip in ~ 3hrs = a 160kt airplane.

I am currently in a flying club that has 3 of the 180hp C172s and a pair of Archers.

Overall - I love the 180hp C172s for regional trips. Bumping around ATL isn’t bad, but spending 5hrs to fly to Detroit, 4hrs to Pittsburg, 4hrs to south Florida - the ole backside starts to hurt! That being said, I am looking for something faster and I want to "buy my 2nd plane - first". 

I plan on flying back home to DFW once or twice a year and that is 650nm from ATL. 

For ~ $220k - I can get a 100% turnkey Cardinal RG.   I love the high wing, the doors are 4ft wide, and the cabin is 48in wide. The Turnbonormalizer doesn't affect TBO - and folks are reporting 175kts @ 17k on 10gph.  Can any Mooney really compete with this efficiency? 

I am not a fan of nose-hoses, but having a built in system is nice.  I don't really do much high-altitude stuff being ATL based- but with winter time being here - my eyes turn to TKS setups as well.  

The Bravo looks really compelling - but man is it a thirsty plane!  Being ATL based and never really needing to go over 8k (The Appalachian Mountains aren't very tall) - I really like the numbers of a TKS Ovation.

Thoughts? 

How much retract time do you have? Specific to make and models you're looking at? Are you ready to pay the insurance 250 hours and IFR will help you, but are you ready to pay the insurance VIG if you have less than 50 hours retract?

I was looking into the Cardinal as well. Great looks, lots of space, good numbers on a spreadsheet, etc... Cardinals are cheap because they are expecting a wing spar AD to ground the fleet at any moment. Everyone I've talked to with a Cardinal has gotten out of the plane because of this.

Cessna 182 for obvious reasons.

If you're looking for a cheaper platform (that insurance would like for you) don't sleep on the Piper Arrow.

I bought a M20R and have become a huge fan. You're closer in numbers than you might think.

[Shiroyuki]

3 hours ago, Jetter2 said:

Hey Gang!

I’m a 250hr IFR pilot that is looking to buy in the next year or so. I am looking for a stable XC machine that can tackle a 500nm trip in ~ 3hrs = a 160kt airplane.

I am currently in a flying club that has 3 of the 180hp C172s and a pair of Archers.

Overall - I love the 180hp C172s for regional trips. Bumping around ATL isn’t bad, but spending 5hrs to fly to Detroit, 4hrs to Pittsburg, 4hrs to south Florida - the ole backside starts to hurt! That being said, I am looking for something faster and I want to "buy my 2nd plane - first". 

 

I plan on flying back home to DFW once or twice a year and that is 650nm from ATL. 

 

For ~ $220k - I can get a 100% turnkey Cardinal RG.   I love the high wing, the doors are 4ft wide, and the cabin is 48in wide. The Turnbonormalizer doesn't affect TBO - and folks are reporting 175kts @ 17k on 10gph.  Can any Mooney really compete with this efficiency? 

 

I am not a fan of nose-hoses, but having a built in system is nice.  I don't really do much high-altitude stuff being ATL based- but with winter time being here - my eyes turn to TKS setups as well.  

 

The Bravo looks really compelling - but man is it a thirsty plane!  Being ATL based and never really needing to go over 8k (The Appalachian Mountains aren't very tall) - I really like the numbers of a TKS Ovation.

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

There's a few TKS but non FIKI M20J for sale that's within your budget range.

What plane you want totally depends on you mission. Look nowhere else if you want to go fast. But if you want more space then 177RG might be a better choice. Commander 114 is also pretty nice for around 200k, and you can get a TKS system installed afterward from CAV.

[Jetter2]

5 minutes ago, Max Clark said:

How much retract time do you have? Specific to make and models you're looking at? Are you ready to pay the insurance 250 hours and IFR will help you, but are you ready to pay the insurance VIG if you have less than 50 hours retract?

I was looking into the Cardinal as well. Great looks, lots of space, good numbers on a spreadsheet, etc... Cardinals are cheap because they are expecting a wing spar AD to ground the fleet at any moment. Everyone I've talked to with a Cardinal has gotten out of the plane because of this.

Cessna 182 for obvious reasons.

If you're looking for a cheaper platform (that insurance would like for you) don't sleep on the Piper Arrow.

I bought a M20R and have become a huge fan. You're closer in numbers than you might think.

I have 0hrs of complex time.  I'm prepared to pay whatever the insurance rate is - everybody has to go through it.

 

The entire flying 177 fleet has had the Wing Spar inspection complied with at this point. 

[toto]

21 minutes ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

175kts at 10gph is going to be something you only get while sucking the O2. 

I guess if you took a Malibu and pulled it back to like 50% you might get close

[Jetter2]

5 minutes ago, toto said:

I guess if you took a Malibu and pulled it back to like 50% you might get close

A Mirage is my lotto plane

[geoffb]

I love these threads.

You like high wing airplanes, want to go 160kts, no retract time, don't like to suck O2, pleasure use only and you've got $200k to burn?  Find a pponk'd 182 (of buy a good Skylane and pponk it when the time comes) enjoy 145-150 kts, cheap insurance and cheap annuals.  Spend an extra half-hour each way, twice a year?  Easy trade for the simplicity and capability of a 182 compared to turbo, deiced, retract anything.

Nothing will crush your love for aviation like the running cost of an airplane more complicated than you need...

 

[Slick Nick]

You're mentioning things like the big doors that make exit and entry easier, and high wings allowing great visibility in turns? You only use doors once a flight, and the Mooneys have excellent visibikity. Hardly seem like factors worth considering.

You sound pretty set on a Cardinal, buy whatever makes you happiest. 

Edited Monday at 07:26 PM by Slick Nick

[Jetter2]

16 minutes ago, Slick Nick said:

You sound pretty set on a Cardinal, buy whatever makes you happiest. 

I just keep coming back to them no matter what else I look at.    

Any of the older folks in here ever tire of getting in and out of a low wing?