EricJ Posted October 10 Report Share Posted October 10 34 minutes ago, Will.iam said: So is that a good thing or bad? It's bad in that there may be much less consistency, since each case may be decided based on the arguments made by attorneys on a particular side of a particular case rather than the management of a responsible agency. So instead of consistent application of an interpretation of the agency focused on the area, somebody's lawyer may drive with the interest of only their client in mind on a single case. If you have a lot of money and good lawyers, it's better for you, because you have more likelihood for control. If you're a typical individual, probably less so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpro999 Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 On 9/25/2024 at 7:54 PM, N201MKTurbo said: You cannot inspect them properly without cleaning them. After you inspect them, you need to repack them. Agreed, inactive aircraft tied outside suffer from Brinelling brought on by any airframe movement causes, even percussion from the environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Harral Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 On 10/10/2024 at 6:05 AM, wombat said: Let's take the definition of 'congested area'.... Right now there is no clear definition of it, and if the FAA wants to take action against a pilot for violating this, they have to determine both the other facts (the flight path that violated the regulation, etc) as well as making an individual determination of if that area was 'congested'. But if some random FSDO lawyer writes an opinion that "congested area" means any location with more than 50 houses per square mile, regardless of if the houses have any people in them at the moment, well...... Any further flights over areas with more than 1 house per 12.8 acres will need to be above the 'congested area' altitude minimums. At the risk of thread drift... I think the horse has already left the barn in this particular case. It's true there is still no regulatory definition of "congested area", but recent enforcement actions have established precedent for increasingly conservative interpretations. See https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2016/january/15/congested-area, whose money quote is, "In enforcement actions, the FAA has successfully declared that a congested area includes a group of people on an airport ramp, sunbathers on a beach, a small subdivision covering less than a quarter mile, and traffic on an Interstate highway." There are also a few LOIs already issued that reference specific NTSB cases with very conservative interpretations. Where the rubber hits the road for me on this is teaching 8s on pylons to commercial students. An increasing number of them are taking advantage of the TAA clause in the experience requirements to take the check ride and execute essentially all their commercial training in 172s and PA-28s. On a day with even a light breeze, these airplanes achieve less than 100 knots ground speed at full power, making their pivotal altitude when headed upwind below 900' AGL. Teaching in a major metropolitan area, I've more or less accepted there's no practical way to teach the maneuver without being in a 91.119 gray area at best. I try to mitigate this by never orbiting one "pylon" more than once or twice, then moving on to some other area. I certainly feel a little better about it in a Mooney, where it's possible to keep the pivotal altitude above 1000' AGL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted Monday at 01:56 PM Report Share Posted Monday at 01:56 PM This is the issue. The FAA writes the regs. Then they interpret them. Then they run you through their system with an ALJ. And THEN, if it goes to court, the court was bound by the interpretation and determinations of the agency. So, the FAA could have decided that one person a mile away was congested, and the courts were bound by that. No longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Boomer Posted Monday at 02:13 PM Report Share Posted Monday at 02:13 PM 16 minutes ago, Pinecone said: This is the issue. The FAA writes the regs. Then they interpret them. Then they run you through their system with an ALJ. And THEN, if it goes to court, the court was bound by the interpretation and determinations of the agency. So, the FAA could have decided that one person a mile away was congested, and the courts were bound by that. No longer. We will need more judges to adjudicate every case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted Monday at 02:16 PM Report Share Posted Monday at 02:16 PM Not every case will go that far. And the hope is, agencies will not make some of the off the wall interpretations that they had in the past, knowing that they could go to court and be overturned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammdo Posted 7 hours ago Report Share Posted 7 hours ago https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2024/october/17/faa-puts-disruptive-determination-on-hold 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted 7 hours ago Report Share Posted 7 hours ago 5 minutes ago, hammdo said: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2024/october/17/faa-puts-disruptive-determination-on-hold Thanks! At least we are back to where we were...for the time being, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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