Autopilot or Paint?

[William Munney]

3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

You should write an article on this and submit it to the Mooney Flyer.

I grew up in Northern Minnesota and spent time in Central Minnesota, probably not too far from you, plus lived in Grand Forks, ND for 5+ years. Now live in Texas. If the trips you're taking bring you down this way let me know, or if I get back up there to visit family I'd like to have lunch with you.

Keep us all posted on how it's going!

Ha!  Anytime Lance.  I have a son in the AF in San Antonio at Brooks Army Medical so that’s on our list when it cools down in Texas.

I’ll keep you posted with a rebuild thread sometime with the details.  But, finally in the flying phase now!  No idea where he will pick next.  I have mentioned NY City and the Hudson River Corridor, Vermont and Maine, Hilton Head, Florida and the Bahamas, Texas, Denver again, Amarillo then Santa Fe then Flagstaff and Sedona, the VFR corridors over the Grand Canyon, California and the West Coast.  Mackinaw island too.  So many interesting airports and small cities.  He wants to land somewhere like Ohare or SFO or maybe Phoenix Sky Harbor too.  I’ll have to see what they are charging in those places.

We have been all over Minnesota and Wisconsin. But missed Oshkosh this year.  We did most of the work on the airplane in Benson (KBBB) with Jason Doscher.  Then, Mankato, Duluth, Anoka County, Osceola, Grand Marais, Brainerd, International Falls, Orr, Fargo.  Wherever there are low clouds and/ or poor visibility. Ha ha. I occasionally have to put the brakes on that.

Anyway, give me a shout when you get back up North.  Be great to meet you.  I’ll do the same when we hit Texas.

[William Munney]

On 7/29/2024 at 7:54 AM, Danb said:

Tough decision although devils advocate will appear just after you pick up your beautiful plane, the A/P will bite the bullet. Stay away from the window we continue to throw our money through you’d hate to fall out.

D

So true.  Just when you think you have the money for this or that…….something else will break.

I knew going in on this that nearly everything on this airplane needed some attention when I bought it so now there is not much that we have not overhauled or rebuilt or at least had a very good look at…… but, on advice of several people, I have left the autopilot alone as long as it’s working.  It’s honestly very smooth.

I am only looking into the Garmin AP because it fits with rest of the panel and opens up further functionality with the GTN navigator and the G500 TXi.

But, there is something to leaving good enough alone.

[William Munney]

On 7/29/2024 at 2:31 AM, ArtVandelay said:

Before you upgrade to a GFC 500, make sure you elevators work smoothly, I had mine checked and lubed during my annual. The servos aren’t too strong and can’t overcome any resistance or sticking.

Just saw this “Art”.  Thank you.  I’ll put it on the list if we go GFC 500.

Imports or Exports Art?  Or architecture?  Ha ha

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, William Munney said:

Ha!  Anytime Lance.  I have a son in the AF in San Antonio at Brooks Army Medical so that’s on our list when it cools down in Texas.

I’ll keep you posted with a rebuild thread sometime with the details.  But, finally in the flying phase now!  No idea where he will pick next.  I have mentioned NY City and the Hudson River Corridor, Vermont and Maine, Hilton Head, Florida and the Bahamas, Texas, Denver again, Amarillo then Santa Fe then Flagstaff and Sedona, the VFR corridors over the Grand Canyon, California and the West Coast.  Mackinaw island too.  So many interesting airports and small cities.  He wants to land somewhere like Ohare or SFO or maybe Phoenix Sky Harbor too.  I’ll have to see what they are charging in those places.

We have been all over Minnesota and Wisconsin. But missed Oshkosh this year.  We did most of the work on the airplane in Benson (KBBB) with Jason Doscher.  Then, Mankato, Duluth, Anoka County, Osceola, Grand Marais, Brainerd, International Falls, Orr, Fargo.  Wherever there are low clouds and/ or poor visibility. Ha ha. I occasionally have to put the brakes on that.

Anyway, give me a shout when you get back up North.  Be great to meet you.  I’ll do the same when we hit Texas.

If the Twins make the playoffs again this year I might make it back up there again. I grew up in Grand Rapids (KGPZ). I've lived in Fredericksburg TX 7 years after 26 in San Antonio.

[NotarPilot]

On 7/16/2024 at 10:25 PM, William Munney said:

Hello all.

I have a 1996 Mooney Ovation in great mechanical shape with a very nice Garmin glass panel (G500 TXi, GTN 750, GNS530),  a new interior and a factory new IO 550 which I have detailed here and there on Mooneyspace.  The paint is original and what you would expect for 28 years old.  Shiny but nothing special. The autopilot is the capable, but old, King KFC 150.  It is smooth and works flawlessly at this time.

I am getting the fuel tanks sealed this Winter and am considering new paint or the installation of the Garmin GFC 500 autopilot.  My question is….Which one is going to give me a better return on the money at resale time?  What would be your choice?

Thanks all.

If I can add my two cents in and having had my plane painted 2.5 years ago, I have to say that a new paint job was one of my favorite investments in my plane. I’m very happy with the design and quality of work as well as the colors. I chose an all metallic scheme with pearl white as the base with a metallic blue secondary base and black and white stripes. The blue really pops depending on how the sun is hitting it. The new paint make it look like a new plane despite being a 46 year old plane. 

I also redid the the panel with a whole new Dynon system in late 2021. I’ve been waiting for the AP to get STC’d for almost 3 years how. Supposedly, it’s next up for Dynon so it should be “any day now.” That being said, all my flying has to be done by hand, it certainly makes you a better pilot especially if you’re flying IFR. So, perhaps the AP can wait. That’s a decision only you can make.

[William Munney]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:17 AM, NotarPilot said:

If I can add my two cents in and having had my plane painted 2.5 years ago, I have to say that a new paint job was one of my favorite investments in my plane. I’m very happy with the design and quality of work as well as the colors. I chose an all metallic scheme with pearl white as the base with a metallic blue secondary base and black and white stripes. The blue really pops depending on how the sun is hitting it. The new paint make it look like a new plane despite being a 46 year old plane. 

I also redid the the panel with a whole new Dynon system in late 2021. I’ve been waiting for the AP to get STC’d for almost 3 years how. Supposedly, it’s next up for Dynon so it should be “any day now.” That being said, all my flying has to be done by hand, it certainly makes you a better pilot especially if you’re flying IFR. So, perhaps the AP can wait. That’s a decision only you can make.

thanks for the reply.  Today it’s NO PAINT.  Tomorrow it will probably change again.

[StevenL757]

On 7/17/2024 at 3:55 AM, William Munney said:

I think it’s the G500TXi PFD.  I have no vacuum system remaining in the airplane.

Not likely.  He most-likely has the GAD43E driving it, or a G5 if he still has the KFC150 with a G500Txi.  This is the way I was configured prior to getting the GFC500.  The GAD43E sat in-between the KFC and the Txi.

[Jetpilot86]

10 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

Not likely.  He most-likely has the GAD43E driving it, or a G5 if he still has the KFC150 with a G500Txi.  This is the way I was configured prior to getting the GFC500.  The GAD43E sat in-between the KFC and the Txi.

This is the setup running my G600. Still have vacuum running my Standby AI. I’m on the paint/standby replacement list. 

[William Munney]

12 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

Not likely.  He most-likely has the GAD43E driving it, or a G5 if he still has the KFC150 with a G500Txi.  This is the way I was configured prior to getting the GFC500.  The GAD43E sat in-between the KFC and the Txi.

It probably is then.  G500 TXI through a GAD 43E.  Could be two squirrels on a spinning wheel for all I know.

[Jetpilot86]

14 hours ago, William Munney said:

It probably is then.  G500 TXI through a GAD 43E.  Could be two squirrels on a spinning wheel for all I know.

If you can control Altitude and Vertical Speed via the G500Txi, you have the GAD43e. Prior to getting the GAD43e I had a separate controller for those things connected to the KFC150.  I don’t see that controller on your panel so I assume you have the GAD43e. 

[William Munney]

17 hours ago, Jetpilot86 said:

If you can control Altitude and Vertical Speed via the G500Txi, you have the GAD43e. Prior to getting the GAD43e I had a separate controller for those things connected to the KFC150.  I don’t see that controller on your panel so I assume you have the GAD43e. 

I can and so you must be correct!

[triple8s]

Ok.  Here is the whole enchilada.
My original intent was to buy a “ buy it and drive it” Ovation or something similar but I ended up purchasing a “fixer upper” which is another story.  And, I don’t mind a project.   I did the math before I bought it and I will be OK when I sell it.  So far.  Someone is going to get a solid, good looking, modernized airplane with a great panel, a very sharp interior, and a factory new motor etc….  And FIKI!  But, at some point, the resale price would not support the money spent to do “everything”.
Why I bought it:
I am currently flying it all over the country with my son, who is in a university aviation program, so we can see the country together and he can get VFR and IFR experience outside his home airport environment.  It’s a narrow window for us to make this happen.  A couple of years.  After that, I am not sure I will keep it.  We’ll see.  Right now, I sure am having fun flying VFR and in the low IFR environment again and he is learning real travel in an airplane in all the weather over large distances.
I completely went through all the aircraft systems ( firewall forward etc……) because my son and I are in there traveling through all kinds of weather together and he will be on the insurance this Fall flying solo.  Things happen in aviation, as you all know, and I just couldn’t live with myself if I had cut corners anywhere and something happened as a result.
The panel had been done before I bought it.  Very capable Garmin IFR.  All glass. Very clean. No vacuum. G500 TXi, GTN 750 WAAS, GNS 530 WAAS, Sirius XM weather, USB ports, remote G345 transponder and audio panel.  So, good there.
The airplane interior really only needed carpet badly.  But, to get to the carpet I had to remove the seats.  Once I had the seats and the carpet out….i just kept going.  It’s all wool and leather now.
Finally, to answer your mission question, I am making improvements to build a safe,  nice looking, all-weather traveler while keeping an eye to resale.  I didn’t want to blindly throw money anywhere so I am seeking advice from you all.  I currently have room in the budget for tank reseal and AP or paint.  But not both.  And, I don’t want to just give things away at resale.  I think everyone understands that.
Thanks again all.

“I am currently flying it all over the country…….”

This is key, things can and do happen. Health issues, many other unexpected things in life which could shorten or upset the time/situation you have NOW with your son. You have an extraordinary and invaluable time in front of you now. Things that could shorten or change this are many. My advice? No amount of money in the world can buy one more second, if that plane is serviceable spend your efforts into flying that awesome bird with your son. Make memories, your son will also learn what happens if and or when an autopilot servo quits on an approach in ifr. He will learn how to get repairs made away from home. It’s a blessing you have right now and it can be gone in an instant. I would be with my son in that plane my friend. Time is the most valuable thing in our lives and all the money in the world won’t buy anymore nor purchase any memories. Just my opinion. Keep it safe and maintained and fly it!


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[glbtrottr]

Paint? Why? Plane looks perfectly serviceable!

Take it from a paint shop owner - i have airplanes that come in with the paint hanging on by its fingernails grabbing for dear life. Yours is fine.

One of these days I’ll find some awlgrip and grab a wing or something so I could paint it with Imron, JetGlo, PPG, Akzo, Awlgrip and a couple of the cheap fleet pains some shops use. The factory painted my K model with JetGlo - it’s embarrassing.

I already know the answer as I’ve painted airplanes and have owned a number of different paint jobs for years - but seeing it first hand, people can make their own conclusions.

Nothing outlasts Imron….including the careless painter that paints it without a mask. Imron lasts foreeeeever - but it is superbly toxic to shoot.

[William Munney]

On 8/31/2024 at 7:37 AM, triple8s said:

“I am currently flying it all over the country…….”

This is key, things can and do happen. Health issues, many other unexpected things in life which could shorten or upset the time/situation you have NOW with your son. You have an extraordinary and invaluable time in front of you now. Things that could shorten or change this are many. My advice? No amount of money in the world can buy one more second, if that plane is serviceable spend your efforts into flying that awesome bird with your son. Make memories, your son will also learn what happens if and or when an autopilot servo quits on an approach in ifr. He will learn how to get repairs made away from home. It’s a blessing you have right now and it can be gone in an instant. I would be with my son in that plane my friend. Time is the most valuable thing in our lives and all the money in the world won’t buy anymore nor purchase any memories. Just my opinion. Keep it safe and maintained and fly it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great advice.

[William Munney]

On 8/31/2024 at 1:15 PM, glbtrottr said:

Paint? Why? Plane looks perfectly serviceable!

Take it from a paint shop owner - i have airplanes that come in with the paint hanging on by its fingernails grabbing for dear life. Yours is fine.

One of these days I’ll find some awlgrip and grab a wing or something so I could paint it with Imron, JetGlo, PPG, Akzo, Awlgrip and a couple of the cheap fleet pains some shops use. The factory painted my K model with JetGlo - it’s embarrassing.

I already know the answer as I’ve painted airplanes and have owned a number of different paint jobs for years - but seeing it first hand, people can make their own conclusions.

Nothing outlasts Imron….including the careless painter that paints it without a mask. Imron lasts foreeeeever - but it is superbly toxic to shoot.

Imron.  Made a note.  Thanks.

[William Munney]

As an update to this thread, I chose to have the GFC500 autopilot installed in the Ovation instead of having it painted.  The install also includes a GI 275 backup attitude indicator which, I believe, actually drives the autopilot.  It should be done in February sometime along with the complete fuel tanks reseal.

It will replace the current King KFC150 autopilot/ servos and the L3 backup attitude indicator which will be for sale.

I view it as an important safety upgrade and it will completely integrate with the G500 TXi PFD and the GTN 750 navigator.

Pictures and a post when I pick it up.

Thanks all.

 

PS. Lance….having all the work done in Texas!  I’ll send a note when it’s time to pick it up.  KGGG

Edited December 23, 2024 by William Munney

[PilotX]

Autopilot. Our paint is mostly original 35 years old. A well integrated autopilot is golden.