ProtoFly Posted July 12 Report Posted July 12 Looking at an M20F. Logs complete. 337s filed for a gear-up takeoff repairs in 1971. Plane has a Rajay turbo, there's a log entry in 1974, but no associated 337. Plane has changed hands several times over the years, with one of the log entries making mention of 'possible missing 337', then followed up with a note saying all entries OK. Recognizing that the early 1970's may have considered this a 'no 337 required' event, and all documentation is otherwise present, should this be a concern? Or, should I consider that a 'missing 337' should be filed if I purchase the plane? Quote
LANCECASPER Posted July 12 Report Posted July 12 14 minutes ago, ProtoFly said: Looking at an M20F. Logs complete. 337s filed for a gear-up takeoff repairs in 1971. Plane has a Rajay turbo, there's a log entry in 1974, but no associated 337. Plane has changed hands several times over the years, with one of the log entries making mention of 'possible missing 337', then followed up with a note saying all entries OK. Recognizing that the early 1970's may have considered this a 'no 337 required' event, and all documentation is otherwise present, should this be a concern? Or, should I consider that a 'missing 337' should be filed if I purchase the plane? The owners over the years may have lost the 337, but buy the FAA documents and see what was filed. You can order them online from the FAA or you can do it rush through Aerospace Reports for $99 if you're an AOPA member. The next owner will want this and may hinder your eventual sale (all airplanes get sold eventually). Quote
ProtoFly Posted July 12 Author Report Posted July 12 3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: The owners over the years may have lost the 337, but buy the FAA documents and see what was filed. You can order them online from the FAA or you can do it rush through Aerospace Reports for $99 if you're an AOPA member. The next owner will want this and may hinder your eventual sale (all airplanes get sold eventually). Have all 337's - did the Aerospace Reports. No 337 on file for the Rajay install. I have the log entry for the install, with the APIA number... Quote
LANCECASPER Posted July 12 Report Posted July 12 OK, If the STC is in the paperwork and it was purchased back then, I believe your mechanic could file one for you after inspecting it, but better yet make this a point of negotiation. It's doubtful that the AP/IA listed there is still working on airplanes 50 years later, but you never know. 3 Quote
M20F Posted July 16 Report Posted July 16 Had the same issue. Except installed in 1971. Everyone missed it (including Maxwell on pre-buy annual) for decades. Long story how it was uncovered but as mentioned above my AI just submitted it and all is good. I did think perhaps 337’s weren’t required but poking around on the internet that form has been around pre-1970. My guess is it got mailed in to OKC and it just got lost. 2 Quote
ProtoFly Posted July 16 Author Report Posted July 16 33 minutes ago, M20F said: Had the same issue. Except installed in 1971. Everyone missed it (including Maxwell on pre-buy annual) for decades. Long story how it was uncovered but as mentioned above my AI just submitted it and all is good. I did think perhaps 337’s weren’t required but poking around on the internet that form has been around pre-1970. My guess is it got mailed in to OKC and it just got lost. Haven't taken possession of the plane yet - they are going through the paper records with the plane to see if a 337 is present. In any case, yeah, if it isn't, I'll get with my IA and get that taken care of. Doesn't sound like a huge issue......(HOPEFULLY). 2 Quote
Paul Thomas Posted July 16 Report Posted July 16 On 7/12/2024 at 4:53 PM, LANCECASPER said: The owners over the years may have lost the 337, but buy the FAA documents and see what was filed. You can order them online from the FAA or you can do it rush through Aerospace Reports for $99 if you're an AOPA member. The next owner will want this and may hinder your eventual sale (all airplanes get sold eventually). There is now online access; it's free and immediate. 2 1 Quote
M20F Posted July 16 Report Posted July 16 2 hours ago, ProtoFly said: Haven't taken possession of the plane yet - they are going through the paper records with the plane to see if a 337 is present. In any case, yeah, if it isn't, I'll get with my IA and get that taken care of. Doesn't sound like a huge issue......(HOPEFULLY). If they do find a 337 it still needs to be filed with OKC. Their 337 is the only one that really matters. In either case it is just filing the form out and sending it, I wouldn’t make it a deal breaker. 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted July 16 Report Posted July 16 1 hour ago, Paul Thomas said: There is now online access; it's free and immediate. It was for awhile where you could download all of the documents (337s, etc), but lately all I’ve been able to get is registration and liens. Quote
M20F Posted July 16 Report Posted July 16 Just now, LANCECASPER said: It was for awhile where you could download all of the documents (337s, etc), but lately all I’ve been able to get is registration and liens. I just updated mine because I wanted to see if they had the RayJay 337 now. I ordered it printed I want to say for $10 which included postage and 1.5” of paper. Stuck it in a binder. Love me a PDF but a nice paper binder for $10 out at the hanger is great. I would have got the CD as well but oddly enough have nothing that can read it. Quote
MikeOH Posted July 16 Report Posted July 16 Ok, so the consensus is that, as of NOW, you CANNOT download 337s for free? Quote
EricJ Posted July 16 Report Posted July 16 Well, bummer. That was a nice feature while it lasted, but the CARES site now sends you back to the old site where you can select CD or paper for the aircraft records. You can get all the registration history records online at the CARES site for download, but for the rest of the records it looks like we're back to the old way. :'( 1 Quote
ProtoFly Posted July 16 Author Report Posted July 16 Good news is that a 337 was found. The 337 in the planes documentation is itself a re-documentation of the original 337, and it clearly didn't make it to the FAA either....So....I'll re-file it. Gotta love it... 3 Quote
RightrudderM20E Posted July 22 Report Posted July 22 Was your RayJay hose AD’s completed? I just purchased a M20E and it need the hose AD done . $4,200 ? Just for the hoses Quote
ProtoFly Posted July 22 Author Report Posted July 22 7 hours ago, RightrudderM20E said: Was your RayJay hose AD’s completed? I just purchased a M20E and it need the hose AD done . $4,200 ? Just for the hoses Good question. I'll review the logs, and further, once I have picked up the plane, will look at the tags on the hoses.... Quote
M20F Posted July 22 Report Posted July 22 22 minutes ago, ProtoFly said: Good question. I'll review the logs, and further, once I have picked up the plane, will look at the tags on the hoses.... Buy the hoses from RayJay directly and it turns from a 5yr replacement to replace upon inspection. Quote
ProtoFly Posted July 22 Author Report Posted July 22 3 minutes ago, M20F said: Buy the hoses from RayJay directly and it turns from a 5yr replacement to replace upon inspection. Important to note is that the hose AD affects just about all planes. I assist in a shop, and have been involved with several hose replacements on Pipers, Cessnas, etc. but yeah, get the new hoses to stop the AD... Quote
M20F Posted July 22 Report Posted July 22 4 hours ago, ProtoFly said: Important to note is that the hose AD affects just about all planes. I assist in a shop, and have been involved with several hose replacements on Pipers, Cessnas, etc. but yeah, get the new hoses to stop the AD... I am speaking specifically to: RAJAY (TALCO Aviation) has received approval for an AMOC (Alternate Method of Compliance) for AD 81-19-04. AD 81-19-04 required the replacement of all air, oil and fuel hoses modified by RAJAY STCs to be replaced every 5 years regardless of condition. The AMOC now allows a "Replace On Condition" so long as you follow the referenced TALCO Instructions for Continued Airworthiness and Service Letter 30 when using the RAJAY PMA Hoses! Quote
ProtoFly Posted July 24 Author Report Posted July 24 On 7/22/2024 at 11:48 AM, M20F said: I am speaking specifically to: RAJAY (TALCO Aviation) has received approval for an AMOC (Alternate Method of Compliance) for AD 81-19-04. AD 81-19-04 required the replacement of all air, oil and fuel hoses modified by RAJAY STCs to be replaced every 5 years regardless of condition. The AMOC now allows a "Replace On Condition" so long as you follow the referenced TALCO Instructions for Continued Airworthiness and Service Letter 30 when using the RAJAY PMA Hoses! All good. Sort of. Hoses done in 2021, which means I'll have to do them in 2026. I'll obviously use the RAJAY PMA hoses to get rid of the AD... Quote
ProtoFly Posted July 24 Author Report Posted July 24 Overall update on the acquisition. New turbo control cable arrived, but mechanic went to OshKosh. REALLY looking forward to closing on the plane, and getting trained on it! Quote
RightrudderM20E Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 On 7/24/2024 at 10:39 AM, ProtoFly said: Overall update on the acquisition. New turbo control cable arrived, but mechanic went to OshKosh. REALLY looking forward to closing on the plane, and getting trained on it! Any updates ? I still need to get my turbo fixed Quote
ProtoFly Posted October 14 Author Report Posted October 14 13 hours ago, RightrudderM20E said: Any updates ? I still need to get my turbo fixed Picked the plane up end of August. Couple of squawks related to the turbo. Nothing too serious, but enough that I've not used the turbo much yet. The oil supply line for the turbo is not what I'd consider 'proper', and so I'm adding an Airwolf remote filter for proper filtration, and will also be routing the turbo oil supply line to the location specified in the install instructions when there is a full-flow oil filter. Documentation is vague at best, and I've been asking people for pictures of their installs. Quote
1980Mooney Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 1 hour ago, ProtoFly said: Picked the plane up end of August. Couple of squawks related to the turbo. Nothing too serious, but enough that I've not used the turbo much yet. The oil supply line for the turbo is not what I'd consider 'proper', and so I'm adding an Airwolf remote filter for proper filtration, and will also be routing the turbo oil supply line to the location specified in the install instructions when there is a full-flow oil filter. Documentation is vague at best, and I've been asking people for pictures of their installs. " oil supply line for the turbo is not what I'd consider 'proper'" "will also be routing the turbo oil supply line to the location specified in the install instructions" So your A&P did not follow the installation instructions? This sounds a bit "Experimental".... Quote
ProtoFly Posted October 14 Author Report Posted October 14 53 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said: " oil supply line for the turbo is not what I'd consider 'proper'" "will also be routing the turbo oil supply line to the location specified in the install instructions" So your A&P did not follow the installation instructions? This sounds a bit "Experimental".... The plumbing was done in 1994, when an Oberg oil filter was installed via an STC for that. I'm trying to correct what was done 30 years ago... 1 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 2 hours ago, ProtoFly said: The plumbing was done in 1994, when an Oberg oil filter was installed via an STC for that. I'm trying to correct what was done 30 years ago... If he would provide you with pictures, the example to look at would be @M20F-1968's F model with Turbo. Quote
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