My first declared emergency

[JimB]

Its really not that difficult but it also isn't quite as simple as some might make it out to be. 

This is a pretty good article ..... Determining Airworthiness for Pilots https://americanflyers.com/determining-airworthiness-for-pilots/

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

Is this really true? What if your suspected “mechanical reason” ends up being a false alarm.  I’m not trying to argue with you but is there really an FAR or a legal interpretation that says “once you declare an emergency your airplane is unairworthy.” Seems like good advice to consider it unairworthy until proven otherwise but I don’t think this is a legal requirement.

If you declare an emergency, remember you may, but not always, be asked for an explanation. If the explanation shows an abundance of caution but the concern was a false alarm, say an instrumentation failure, no harm, no foul. So if you are flying along, and all of the sudden your gauges show near empty fuel tanks and after declaring an emergency it is found to be say a bad gauge unit,  no problem.  If however you declare an emergency and after your explanation it is found you were incompetent in your assessment a 709 ride may be in your future. I will give you a direct example.

Transatlantic flight proceeding east bound. Boeing 767. The low oil pressure light illuminates. On the flight deck is two First Officers, one with 100 hours in type, the other has 75 hours in type. The Captain is on his required rest break. The pilots on the flight deck note the oil pressure gauge is normal, and the oil temperature remains normal. Before the Captain can return to the flight deck, they declare an emergency, idle the engine and begin a diversion to Keflavik, Iceland. The FAA determined they were unqualified as they should have known, correctly, that the gauge was primary and oil temperature confirmed the validity of the pressure gauge. (In fact the light is there only to satisfy the UK CAA requirements). They had to undergo retraining and take a check ride.

Keep in mind different certificate holders are held to different standards. You are not going to be held to the same standards as an ATP with a type rating.

 

[hubcap]

4 hours ago, ttflyer said:

Obviously not the same thing but just a data point:  I fly a Challenger 350 for a living.  I was picking it up from a service center and during the initial takeoff roll, we got a CAS message and aborted the takeoff at about 40 knots (very low speed abort).  We taxied the airplane back to the service center and went to the hotel.  Two days later, plane fixed, we left.  About two weeks later, I get a call from a Local FAA FSDO inspector.  He wanted my story about what happened and how it was resolved including that there was a logbook entry for the repair.

So, if you abort at a towered airport, I'd take to a mechanic before I tried again...  My understanding is that anytime an airplane takes a runway for takeoff, if it doesn't takeoff, the tower is required to report it to the FAA.

Obviously at uncontrolled airports, this doesn't apply.  But be aware at towered airports...

I had an aborted take-off leaving KPIE last year due to a warning light that came on during my take-off roll.

I told the tower what happened after I aborted, and taxied to the ramp to clear up the warning light. I continued operating and proceeded to take-off after dealing with the issue, but I did not get a call from anyone. I did not shut the engine down.

This was just a personal GA flight not a commercial flight.

[201Mooniac]

6 hours ago, ttflyer said:

Obviously not the same thing but just a data point:  I fly a Challenger 350 for a living.  I was picking it up from a service center and during the initial takeoff roll, we got a CAS message and aborted the takeoff at about 40 knots (very low speed abort).  We taxied the airplane back to the service center and went to the hotel.  Two days later, plane fixed, we left.  About two weeks later, I get a call from a Local FAA FSDO inspector.  He wanted my story about what happened and how it was resolved including that there was a logbook entry for the repair.

So, if you abort at a towered airport, I'd take to a mechanic before I tried again...  My understanding is that anytime an airplane takes a runway for takeoff, if it doesn't takeoff, the tower is required to report it to the FAA.

Obviously at uncontrolled airports, this doesn't apply.  But be aware at towered airports...

I've aborted take-offs twice at towered fields after maintenance (once avionics and once an engine replacement) and neither time did I hear from anyone after the tower asked if I needed any assistance.  Both times I went back and the issue was my over cautious attitude to taking a potential problem into the air.

[T. Peterson]

8 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Is this really true? What if your suspected “mechanical reason” ends up being a false alarm.  I’m not trying to argue with you but is there really an FAR or a legal interpretation that says “once you declare an emergency your airplane is unairworthy.” Seems like good advice to consider it unairworthy until proven otherwise but I don’t think this is a legal requirement.

Lots of good points have been made and worthy of consideration. However they don’t all apply to every situation equally. Consider, but don’t adopt as gospel. Filter it through your own situation and common sense. From what I can tell, your instincts are pretty good.

[gabez]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:20 PM, EricJ said:

Say you do a pre-takeoff runup and everything is fine, but during the takeoff roll the engine runs rough and you abort.    You return to a runup area and after a few runups the issue clears and remains clear.    You then depart for your destination with an uneventful flight.    Is there something wrong with doing that?

Maintainers don't evaluate an aircraft's airworthiness except during a 100-hour or annual or equivalent inspection.   Determining airworthiness for a flight rests with the pilot.

 

the run up checked fine and upon taking off I felt the plane wasn't performing. nothing on the run up pointed the plane wasn't right

[carusoam]

Nice thread gabez!

Thanks for sharing it.

Three things I try to look for before committing to flight…

1) rpm…

2) MP…

3) FF…

Confirming aircraft performance after the fact….

4) Running cloud/ahoy to measure T/O distance… and confirming with climb rate

If I have all three… I am most likely producing 100% power as expected…

If I have the fourth… all is proven good.

 

Where this falls down… is partial blockage of a fuel injector…

The fuel will appear in the other fuel injectors… but not produce full power…

 

Partial blockage of fuel injectors is a bit common around here… an engine monitor is a good way to find them…

If you can… download your data from the monitor… up load to Savvy… push the share button… copy the link here…

There have been a few reports of turbo MP controllers not working perfectly… the MP data is recorded by the engine monitor…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[gabez]

29 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Nice thread gabez!

Thanks for sharing it.

Three things I try to look for before committing to flight…

1) rpm…

2) MP…

3) FF…

Confirming aircraft performance after the fact….

4) Running cloud/ahoy to measure T/O distance… and confirming with climb rate

If I have all three… I am most likely producing 100% power as expected…

If I have the fourth… all is proven good.

 

Where this falls down… is partial blockage of a fuel injector…

The fuel will appear in the other fuel injectors… but not produce full power…

 

Partial blockage of fuel injectors is a bit common around here… an engine monitor is a good way to find them…

If you can… download your data from the monitor… up load to Savvy… push the share button… copy the link here…

There have been a few reports of turbo MP controllers not working perfectly… the MP data is recorded by the engine monitor…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

thanks. I will do that. My mechanic thinks that is the issue as well. as I was flying towards Lodi the #1 comeback with a very high EGT, maybe not enough fuel. When I did my run ups on the ground after words, everything checked out and when I took off again I had 2700 and 40, however I just felt something wasn't right. 

I do have a g2 so I will download the data and see what happened. 

we will go there tomorrow and check it out so I should have something to report back soon. 

[Aerodon]

Posted recently on Beechtalk (thanks Noam):

 

1) 2020 I declared an emergency in my Cessna 414 night time climbing through 2000' lost oil press on left engine.
There was ZERO contact from the FAA or anyone. No bills, no paperwork. NOTHING.

2) 2021 in my citation elevator trim frozen in flight, declared emergency
FSDO called me 2 weeks later - super friendly. It went something like this:

FSDO: "Hey Noam, you declared an emergency?"
Me: "Yes, my elevator trim froze".
FSDO: "Did you find out with your mechanic what the reason was later?"
Me: "Yes - we needed fresh lube on the trim actuator"
FSDO: "okidokie, just checking in. Fly safe brother!"
Me: "Cheers!"

That was the END of that. No logbooks, no medical, no paperwork, NOTHING. Just a quick friendly chat.

[ilovecornfields]

59 minutes ago, Aerodon said:

Posted recently on Beechtalk (thanks Noam):

 

1) 2020 I declared an emergency in my Cessna 414 night time climbing through 2000' lost oil press on left engine.
There was ZERO contact from the FAA or anyone. No bills, no paperwork. NOTHING.

2) 2021 in my citation elevator trim frozen in flight, declared emergency
FSDO called me 2 weeks later - super friendly. It went something like this:

FSDO: "Hey Noam, you declared an emergency?"
Me: "Yes, my elevator trim froze".
FSDO: "Did you find out with your mechanic what the reason was later?"
Me: "Yes - we needed fresh lube on the trim actuator"
FSDO: "okidokie, just checking in. Fly safe brother!"
Me: "Cheers!"

That was the END of that. No logbooks, no medical, no paperwork, NOTHING. Just a quick friendly chat.

The same Noam who started the cringiest Crashtalk thread ever when he tried to defend Jerry’s inability to hand fly IFR and near-fatal GPS programming ineptitude, then tried to educate the airline pilots on what airline pilots should know, all in order to get hits in his YouTube channel? Not sure I’d consider him a source of sage advice.

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=218856

[gabez]

well closing the loop here, that wasn't cheap, we fundamentally found 3 problems. I only did some landing after the work as the weather hasn't been great on the coast and I am not ready to go IFR until I feel confident again in the plane:

- We had to redo the alternator coupling job I did a year ago as the shop that did it forgot to install the coupling sleeve. I got a full refund from the original shop so that was the end of it. I was seeing some fluctuation of voltage, I don't believe this caused the emergency but we took care of it. 

- we had to rebuilt the mags, one had bad coil, bad capacitor and an oil leak from the oil seal 

- there was water in one of the tanks, on of the fuel caps was leaking this is totally on me....I guess they are all on me. 

 

will see how she does next time up