Does anyone else consider magnetos optional?

[Comatose]

Evidently my repair shop does! Inquiring into the invoice for my annual, which didn't have my 500 hour magneto service listed. They've had the plane for nine weeks.

"

Howdy John,
500 hour inspections are a great idea on magnetos. I did see that
they were there, time-wise, but since you do not have impulse couplings
there was no mandatory reason to pull them off. If they were on your
list and they fell through a communication crack between Ben and myself
then I am sorry about that. We check the timing and look briefly at
them and look the harness over, but at 553 hours they did not jump out
at me as something to recommend for you to do, although I suppose they
might have been. I am fully behind you choosing to do the 500 hours on
them, but we will need an extra week beyond March 2 to get them back and
on. Let me know.
Thanks, and,
My apologies,
Eric

"

Of my squawk list, which was brake pads, wing sumps, mag 500 hour service and nav light breaker, only nav light breaker got done. I'm furious. Am I overreacting, or should I just collect the plane from these chuckelheads and drop it off somewhere where they have a vested interest in my prop continuing to turn?

 

Does anyone here actually skip mag service at 500 hours? They're slick mags, to add insult to injury. 

 

[pjsny78]

9 Weeks to do an annual and an additional 4 items? I’d be more upset about this.

I honestly do not know much about the magneto inspection. I have slick mags and am a little over this inspection apparently. I’m curious what others say on this.

 

 

[johnggreen]

Of course, I'm only hearing one side and very limited information but I have two comments.

I overhaul the Slick mags on my Bravo every 400 hours +/-.  I understand that you can pretty much depend on problems when they hit 500 but that is hearsay; albeit from experienced mouths.  I don't like problems.

Secondly, NINE WEEKS?  I think the best shops figure on about 42 man hours on a Bravo annual excepting major issues.  Nine weeks for an annual would in and of itself cause me to NEVER darken their doors again.  In fact, three weeks would be unacceptable without some serious issues being addressed.  My last annual took two weeks, but that included the overhaul of the prop and the speed brakes by 3rd parties.

Now, that is just one man's opion.

Jgreen

[johnggreen]

Excuse me.  "That was my opinion."  I'm not sure I even know what an opion is.

Jgreen

[jetdriven]

I would treat the magneto 500 hour inspection as an AD.  I am an "on condition" guy but this is where i draw the line.

 

I'd be P.O.'d.   We did this in 9 days, and that was just one man working during the day, and two men for 4 hours a night.  Plus 3 weekend days of 3 people.

[Comatose]

Well, in fairness to them in terms of timeframe, Nine weeks is annual plus install an EDM-730. Its my avionics ship, they're a good avionics shop. I hadn't tried them for an annual before, figured I'd give it a go. Probably... won't... be repeating that experiment. 

They sent out an exhaust component for welding, and sent out my starter for overhaul. That, rework my landing light lens, replace a switch that was getting flaky odds and ends, and the bill isn't bad. But how can you be that slow AND ignore my squawk list?

Most of my flying is over the appalachians, either over PA, west virginia or kentucky. I'd like to do everything I can to make sure the noisy part stays noisy until I am back on the ground.

[orangemtl]

Quote: johnggreen

Excuse me.  "That was my opinion."  I'm not sure I even know what an opion is.

Jgreen

[Immelman]

Drive your annual; its your butt on the line.

9 weeks might be okay with me if the annual included a new paint job. I would not be happy with a 9-day annual, but that's just me.

[garytex]

Open the mags at 500 hrs is Holy Writ for every airplane gearhead I know.

[danb35]

There's no legal or regulatory requirement for the mag inspection at 500 hours (or any other interval).  If you didn't tell them to do it when you left the plane, I don't think you have grounds to be mad at them.  If you did, and it still isn't done 9 weeks later, that's a different story entirely.

Yes, the inspection is very widely (and strongly) recommended, but "widely recommended" isn't the same as "required".

[Shadrach]

Coma,

I'll take an opposing position, just to be contrary!

I do think that it's a good idea to open a mag around 500hours, though I don't think it's absolutely necessary (depending on type), especially if you've staggered them at different intervals. If it's a dual mag than it absolutely should come apart every 500. I don't know what mag/mags you have on your C-model

Here's the thing - this is not an AD and you should not expect him to do it just because you thought that "everyone" else did.  If you want you your mags checked at annual, then tell him to do so.  Having mags at 575hrs does not make your plane unairworthy.

This is your responsibility.

When my plane goes in for annual, I do not expect SBs to be complied with automatically.

It's not easy being a mechanic, some folks drop the plane off, ask little about the process and don't care to. They pay the bills and move on. Others are very involved. I don't know how well he knows you. Either way, this appears to have been a communication breakdown, nothing more.

 

Edit- I see now, that you say it was on your squawk list when you dropped the plane. I would be pissed if that's the case.

[Cris]

If one "misses" the owners squalk list that would indicate to me a less than meticulous attitude towards maintenance. Unless you were waiting on third party efforts like the muffler repair nine weeks is outrageous. I'd be out of there in a heartbeat. Find a shop in which you have confidence & trust. It is your butt and mayby that of your family/friends. In my case I work at finding a shop that allows owner assisted annuals so that I really have only me to be concerned with the quality of the final product. BTW It never takes more than a week.

[butchgilbert]

Comatose, I found out last year that my mechanics had not done the 500 hour inspection on my Slick mags as well.  I had over 700 hours of absolutely trouble free service from them.  Then, I immediately ordered two new Slick mags, a new ignition harness, and new Champion spark plugs (although I hear the Champions are not that great).

I take flight safety very seriously, you can have all kinds of inflight malfunctions, but FUEL, SPARK and AIR necessary for the engine and prop to rotate is not one that I care to experience. Am I over cautious, probably, it is also not the cheapest way to maintain and fly a Mooney, but I consider 500 hours on Slick mags TBO and replace when I hit that mark. Just my opinion, I may be wrong.

[Shadrach]

Quote: butchgilbert

Comatose, I found out last year that my mechanics had not done the 500 hour inspection on my Slick mags as well.  I had over 700 hours of absolutely trouble free service from them.  Then, I immediately ordered two new Slick mags, a new ignition harness, and new Champion spark plugs (although I hear the Champions are not that great).

I take flight safety very seriously, you can have all kinds of inflight malfunctions, but FUEL, SPARK and AIR necessary for the engine and prop to rotate is not one that I care to experience. Am I over cautious, probably, it is also not the cheapest way to maintain and fly a Mooney, but I consider 500 hours on Slick mags TBO and replace when I hit that mark. Just my opinion, I may be wrong.

[scottfromiowa]

My A&P Brian REQUESTS a written squak list.  He also is clear to me what timeframe I am looking at.  He services some larger aircraft and deals with "emergency" repairs too.  That said it's MY decision on timing.  I could say "I want it done in two-four days and he would say "O.K.", but I will let you know as I'm busy this week.  I really feel the timeframe should be clearly negotiated.  He also calls when he gets to an "hours of work" and let's me decide on a couple nice to have's like installing a co-pilot ram air vent (deferred two years running)...

We discussed mags.  They will be inspected at next annual at 500+- since overhaul.

[John Pleisse]

Mags are a deal breaker. I have the Slicks on a a Lyc IO360. They are 500 hour throw-aways. If you arrive at 475 hours a couple of times and pay for points, timing, etc...... or even your 500 hour SB, you are throwing good money after bad. It is almost uncanny, the slow, whining, cold starts begin around 450 hours.

But then again, Slick used to be your cheapest option. Now, they are expensive too.

A nine week annual is inexcusable. Autopilots and Garmin 500's get installed in under 5 weeks. Gear-ups? Major repairs? Way under nine weeks. That's insane. I start calling on the 10 day mark and turning the thumb screws.

[smccray]

Quote: Comatose

Of my squawk list, which was brake pads, wing sumps, mag 500 hour service and nav light breaker, only nav light breaker got done. I'm furious. Am I overreacting, or should I just collect the plane from these chuckelheads and drop it off somewhere where they have a vested interest in my prop continuing to turn?

 

[jwilkins]

Except for the dual mags where I have been told the inspection ties back to an AD, this is optional.

I understand Don Maxwell thinks it should be done, whcih means I'll do it at annual this year. My mechanic back East said he would open and check the mags at annual but not do the full inspection unless requested or he found something. It's not required but apparently a really good idea to get it done.

I wish we had some real data to look at; if we knew the hours to failure on mags and the history of inspections we'd have a better understanding of the risk / benefit. Without that , when someone like Maxwell says 'do it' it would be risky to ignore his advice. I don't want to deal with a mag failure in flight.

 

[thinwing]

comatose....you had your avionics shop do your annual inspection?Did they even possess maintance manuals for your Mooney.You state the only squawk they addressed was a breaker?That s understandible...they had the parts...didnt replace the brakepads?..These sorta fall right off when they remove the wheels in order to grease the wheel bearings...usually at the time they jack the aircraft to swing the gear...did they do that?Point being...a shop specializing in avionics doing annual inspections is extremely rare..you might want to have it looked at again..kpc

[Shadrach]

Quote: jwilkins

Except for the dual mags where I have been told the inspection ties back to an AD, this is optional.

I understand Don Maxwell thinks it should be done, whcih means I'll do it at annual this year. My mechanic back East said he would open and check the mags at annual but not do the full inspection unless requested or he found something. It's not required but apparently a really good idea to get it done.

I wish we had some real data to look at; if we knew the hours to failure on mags and the history of inspections we'd have a better understanding of the risk / benefit. Without that , when someone like Maxwell says 'do it' it would be risky to ignore his advice. I don't want to deal with a mag failure in flight.

 

[Shadrach]

Quote: N4352H

Mags are a deal breaker. I have the Slicks on a a Lyc IO360. They are 500 hour throw-aways. If you arrive at 475 hours a couple of times and pay for points, timing, etc...... or even your 500 hour SB, you are throwing good money after bad. It is almost uncanny, the slow, whining, cold starts begin around 450 hours.

But then again, Slick used to be your cheapest option. Now, they are expensive too.

A nine week annual is inexcusable. Autopilots and Garmin 500's get installed in under 5 weeks. Gear-ups? Major repairs? Way under nine weeks. That's insane. I start calling on the 10 day mark and turning the thumb screws.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Shadrach

Seriously? How much are new slicks?  AMS will do the 500hr SB for $250 plus any repairs.

[jwilkins]

Quote: Shadrach

A mag failure at night is no big deal, both mags failing at night is a big deal...

[pjsny78]

This posting just alerted me to this 500hr SB. I never knew about this before. I have 600hrs on my engine with slicks. I really do not know much about how this process works but does anyone know if it is possible to get same day service on this? If not is there one shop that is considered the best at this service where you can send in your mags? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[MooneyMitch]

Hi Patrick. 

Try Aero Accessories in Van Nuys, CA.  150 miles South of SMX.  $325 p/mag for 500 hr. inspection.  You could have Coastal Valley FBO, just across from Artcraft, pull you mags and get them sent down to VNY for you.