Where to put the EDM 900 and a Dynon D3

[Flash]

N315L is currently in the shop awaiting delivery of an EDM 900. AI and HSI will be replaced by GI 275s. Turn coordinator at bottom left is coming out.

Question: If the EDM 900 goes where the turn coordinator currently is, where do I put a Dynon D3, which seems like a good idea to give me a backup source of attitude info that is not reliant on the same inputs as the GI 275s? Would it fit where the Shadin currently is, above my Stormscope?

Don't tell me to get rid of my ADF display. I like it and am keeping it and get off of my lawn! If I can't put the D3 where the Shadin currently is, I could pull my VSI and put it there. If I lose both of my GI 275s, I think I'd still be fine with ASI and Altimeter.

I know there is an option not to have the D3 flush on the panel, but I'd prefer to have it that way.

Or does the D3 go where the turn coordinator currently is and the EDM 900 goes somewhere else (where the Shadin is, or where the VSI is)?

There will be an IFD 540 in the center stack, under the audio panel, with the KX 165 as a No. 2 Nav/Com and the KLN 90B and KX 155 gone. The right side of the panel stays pretty much as-is, except I'll have my iPad on a swivel mount above and over the ADF radio. It's likely that the IDF will act as a second display for the IFD540. 

Ideas?

[ArtVandelay]

You don’t need the any of the engine or fuel instruments as the 900 replaces all them. I think the stormscope and shadin both have to go, move the SS to right radio stack, move all the switches where you have engine instruments.
Or leave the SS and put the 900 where the switches are, make it left justified because it must be within certain distance of the pilot.

[TheAv8r]

I'd put the 900 horizontally installed where your VSI is, and move the VSI where the TC is, then move your CDI up where the ADF indicator is, kill the ADF (yes I said it! ) and you don't run into any issues with your switches. You could also put the ADF where the stormscope is if you realllly wanted to keep it.

[ZuluZulu]

Are you pulling the switches under the TC?  The 900 won't fit perfectly in that square footprint, there will be some overhang.  Since you're keeping the ASI, the 900 either has to overhang to the left (might interfere with the switches on your leftmost panel) or it has to overhang below (which would interfere with the existing switches underneath the TC).  

[Flash]

2 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

Are you pulling the switches under the TC?  The 900 won't fit perfectly in that square footprint, there will be some overhang.  Since you're keeping the ASI, the 900 either has to overhang to the left (might interfere with the switches on your leftmost panel) or it has to overhang below (which would interfere with the existing switches underneath the TC).  

Thanks, ZuluZulu. Great question. One of the switches under the TC is standby vacuum, and that can go. The other is pitot heat, and I bet that can move to the open switch spot under the HSI (which will be a GI 275) or to the gap under my No. 2 CDI.

 

10 hours ago, Alex M said:

I'd put the 900 horizontally installed where your VSI is, and move the VSI where the TC is, then move your CDI up where the ADF indicator is, kill the ADF (yes I said it! ) and you don't run into any issues with your switches. You could also put the ADF where the stormscope is if you realllly wanted to keep it.

Thanks. I don't want to kill my stormscope or my ADF.

 

13 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

You don’t need the any of the engine or fuel instruments as the 900 replaces all them. I think the stormscope and shadin both have to go, move the SS to right radio stack, move all the switches where you have engine instruments.
Or leave the SS and put the 900 where the switches are, make it left justified because it must be within certain distance of the pilot.

Thanks, Tom. I don't understand what you mean by, "put the 900 where the switches are." Do you mean I should put the 900 where the TC is and let it overhang where the two left-most switches are, as ZuluZulu suggested? That seems like a workable idea.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Flash
add possible location of pitot heat switch

[Will.iam]

Since you can remove all those engine instrument gauges with the edm 900, why not move that DME or Alt pre select I can’t tell which it is due to the low res picture and put it above the altimeter where the engine gauges where before before you removed them with the edm 900. Also move your gear switch over above your ADF that way you have room to put your edm 900 over your storm scope and you could put your D3 where you’re taking out the TC.  
 

on rereading your post i see that is your shadin fuel flow so you can just remove that and put the edm 900 there. If need be move the gear handle over the adf where the engine guages will be removed. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Will.iam
Realized that was the shadin FF

[ArtVandelay]

Thanks, Tom. I don't understand what you mean by, "put the 900 where the switches are." Do you mean I should put the 900 where the TC is and let it overhang where the two left-most switches are, as ZuluZulu suggested? That seems like a workable idea.

Move the switches in the right radio stack, the elt can probably stay, put the 900 in portrait orientation left justified where the switches were.
I can not see having the 900 overhang switches as being a viable option.
Remove engine gauges.

[ZuluZulu]

1 hour ago, Flash said:

Thanks, ZuluZulu. Great question. One of the switches under the TC is standby vacuum, and that can go. The other is pitot heat, and I bet that can move to the open switch spot under the HSI (which will be a GI 275) or to the gap under my No. 2 CDI.

 

Thanks. I don't want to kill my stormscope or my ADF.

 

Thanks, Tom. I don't understand what you mean by, "put the 900 where the switches are." Do you mean I should put the 900 where the TC is and let it overhang where the two left-most switches are, as ZuluZulu suggested? That seems like a workable idea.

Aesthetically, putting it in the TC spot would drive me nuts if I was looking at it every day.  It's going to look out of place and bolted on because of the overhang, that space is designed for a round or square instrument, not a rectangle.  Personally I would put it above or in the Stormscope spot and relocate the items above the Stormscope (easier because they're smaller?) or the Stormscope itself (harder?) to the right side.  Or if one of the indicators in your fourth column of round instruments can be removed or indicated by a GI-275 (such as the CDI), put it there.  Two photos below to give an idea of what that might look like.  

If you don't want to do any of that you could also put the 900 somewhere on the right side of the panel and then, since it's not directly in front of you, install the mandatory idiot light and digital indicator in the vacated engine instrument strip above your primary instruments that's going to be filled in with a blanking plate anyway.

AND FINALLY, the cleaner looking alternative to the above: cut a new panel and put this stuff precisely where you want it. 

(Yes the photo of N57785 is actually an EDM-830 not the larger 900 but you get the idea.) 

 

[Flash]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

Move the switches in the right radio stack, the elt can probably stay, put the 900 in portrait orientation left justified where the switches were.
I can not see having the 900 overhang switches as being a viable option.
Remove engine gauges.

Thanks, Tom. I want to keep the 900 on the left side.

[carusoam]

What a great challenge, Flash!

This summary uses ideas provided above… it allows for keeping the panel metal mostly as is….
 

1) Double check the real estate behind the TC…. If the Dynon D3 can fit there…. Out with the TC!

2) Double check that the AP isn’t using the TC… some APs do, the TC often gets moved behind the panel somewhere…. In this case. (BK APs probably don’t use the TC)

3) Check the real estate required for the JPI 900… it takes up more than one round hole…. It partly covers a neighboring hole…

4) The JPI can probably fit where the storm scope is… move the switches out from below…. (Important fit check)

5) Where does the storm scope go next? Up where the FF display is… there are plenty of engine instruments coming out where the FF display can go…. Keep the FF display as close to the red knob as possible for convenience…

6) Consider the JPI 930, on the right side panel to see if it even fits… it comes with the RAD remote display for MP, RPM, and master caution alarm… so it doesn’t neeeed to be right up front…

7) Next consider a larger panel…. Like a Bravo has….  
 

8) After that… find a digital display that shows ILS, VOR, and ADF on one display… Aspen? G5? GI275?

9) A good digital display will also show your weather on top of your nav info….

 

Unfortunately, the plane is stuck with a 10Lb bag… and there is a lot of stuff to get fit in there….  

 

I can see why the Bravo and the O1 went with three rows of instruments… 

PP summary sort of…

Best regards,

-a-

[DCarlton]

35 minutes ago, carusoam said:

What a great challenge, Flash!

This summary uses ideas provided above… it allows for keeping the panel metal mostly as is….
 

1) Double check the real estate behind the TC…. If the Dynon D3 can fit there…. Out with the TC!

2) Double check that the AP isn’t using the TC… some APs do, the TC often gets moved behind the panel somewhere…. In this case. (BK APs probably don’t use the TC)

3) Check the real estate required for the JPI 900… it takes up more than one round hole…. It partly covers a neighboring hole…

4) The JPI can probably fit where the storm scope is… move the switches out from below…. (Important fit check)

5) Where does the storm scope go next? Up where the FF display is… there are plenty of engine instruments coming out where the FF display can go…. Keep the FF display as close to the red knob as possible for convenience…

6) Consider the JPI 930, on the right side panel to see if it even fits… it comes with the RAD remote display for MP, RPM, and master caution alarm… so it doesn’t neeeed to be right up front…

7) Next consider a larger panel…. Like a Bravo has….  
 

8) After that… find a digital display that shows ILS, VOR, and ADF on one display… Aspen? G5? GI275?

9) A good digital display will also show your weather on top of your nav info….

 

Unfortunately, the plane is stuck with a 10Lb bag… and there is a lot of stuff to get fit in there….  

 

I can see why the Bravo and the O1 went with three rows of instruments… 

PP summary sort of…

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks for pointing out the 930 RAD.  I’m considering upgrading from an advisory EDM to a 930 on the right side.  

[carusoam]

7 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Thanks for pointing out the 930 RAD.  I’m considering upgrading from an advisory EDM to a 930 on the right side.  

For pics…. Find how @Bob_Belville organized his…

Unfortunately, I am unable to invite Bob to join us… but he really liked his instruments…  and put in extra effort to get them organized…

Bob was an Electrical Engineer…

 

Best regards,

-a-

[KSMooniac]

I understand the sentiment to add an attitude backup that is different from the pair of 275's... that is a good thought. I'll ask the question "what is good enough" for that redundancy?  We have all sorts of options these days for what is likely a rare event (a major failure, much less a major failure in IMC).  Is a solution with an ADHRS + iPad good enough?  If you're already using an iPad as many of us are, perhaps that is good enough?  My J came with the Mid-Continent Life Saver gyro (electric iron gyro + own battery backup) and it was great...until it wasn't.  It crapped the bed and MCI wants $2k to repair, and nobody else can work on it, so I pulled it out.  My backup is now my iPad + GDL-39-3D.  I'm ok with that now, especially since I don't fly nearly as much IMC compared to 8-10 years ago.  Whenever I re-do my panel, I will likely add something back in, though.

You mentioned an IFD-540 going in ... I think if you upgrade to the -550, it adds some sort of very capable backup, right?  Would that solve the problem?

I agree completely about putting your EDM-900 on the pilot side panel as you'll look at it the most, and it is important.  I put mine on the lower right of my pilot side and like it there.  I disagree about retaining an ADF, but if you want it, keep it!  Upgrading the storm scope to the WX-500 for display on an IFD might also work, but with sale of that product line and the insane price increases I would not recommend that now.

Good luck

[Flash]

13 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I understand the sentiment to add an attitude backup that is different from the pair of 275's... that is a good thought. I'll ask the question "what is good enough" for that redundancy?  We have all sorts of options these days for what is likely a rare event (a major failure, much less a major failure in IMC).  Is a solution with an ADHRS + iPad good enough?  If you're already using an iPad as many of us are, perhaps that is good enough?  My J came with the Mid-Continent Life Saver gyro (electric iron gyro + own battery backup) and it was great...until it wasn't.  It crapped the bed and MCI wants $2k to repair, and nobody else can work on it, so I pulled it out.  My backup is now my iPad + GDL-39-3D.  I'm ok with that now, especially since I don't fly nearly as much IMC compared to 8-10 years ago.  Whenever I re-do my panel, I will likely add something back in, though.

You mentioned an IFD-540 going in ... I think if you upgrade to the -550, it adds some sort of very capable backup, right?  Would that solve the problem?

I agree completely about putting your EDM-900 on the pilot side panel as you'll look at it the most, and it is important.  I put mine on the lower right of my pilot side and like it there.  I disagree about retaining an ADF, but if you want it, keep it!  Upgrading the storm scope to the WX-500 for display on an IFD might also work, but with sale of that product line and the insane price increases I would not recommend that now.

Good luck

Thanks, Scott. I figure for $900 and no installation cost, the D3 is a pretty cheap backup. I think the odds of both GI 275s going out are very low, but with no turn coordinator (current one would need an overhaul, so I'm dumping it) if the GI 275s fail I would have no way to know in IMC if the wings are level and no way to keep coordinated (although, to be honest, the M20J generally stays coordinated all by itself). Yes, I could upgrade to the 550, but that's a lot more expensive than the D3, and the D3 looks like it would be easier to fly by because it is so much like the GI 275 display.