Avionics for new-to-me M20K

[CoffeeCan]

As previously posted, my M20K (N5779R) was written off as a total loss by the insurance company after my engine-out forced landing 9/30/21. I received the check from the insurance company in December, and have been sitting on it while weighing my options. 

I won't go into a lot of detail on my deliberations, suffice to say that I considered other aircraft (primarily Bonanza, but I also looked hard at transitioning to a twin). But when I discussed my primary and secondary missions, it really came down to getting another M20K, either a 231 or a 252. I have been back and forth with Jimmy Garrison since shortly after Christmas but realistically I was just in window-shopping mode until recently. I have decided to enter into a contract with Jimmy on a 1984 231, and I'm pretty comfortable with that. 

My only hesitation is with respect to this aircraft's avionics. It has 1984 instruments, of course, with a GPS upgrade to a Garmin GTN-750. I haven't used one of these before, but everything I read and hear about them is very positive. It also has a Garmin GTX-330ES ADS-B, and Garmin GDL-88 ADS-B datalink. The autopilot is a King KFC-150 /Flight Director/Glideslope-Glidepath coupling feature. It does not have a decent engine monitor. 

My previous bird had an Aspen Evolution 1000 PFD, and after I became familiar with its features and capabilities I really liked it. I also became very familiar with the JPI 800 series monitor, and quite frankly I do not want to fly a turbo Continental that doesn't have at least an 800 series monitor. Finally, I'm wondering if the KFC-150 is functional enough to keep, or if I should be looking at replacing that with an autopilot of more recent vintage. 

So as I see it today, I'm going to be installing a glass PFD and a JPI engine monitor, +/- a new autopilot.  I'm trying to figure out whether the GTN-750 can be coupled with an Aspen PFD, or whether I need to install a Garmin G1000 (or other Garmin) for optimal compatibility and utility. The question comes down to 1) compatibility, 2) capability, and 3) cost. I have a comfortable but not extravagant budget for the avionics  upgrades. I

There is a bewildering plethora of opinions and data on these issues on the www, and since opinions are as ubiquitous as buttholes, my searches have been frustrating. Let's just say the signal-to-noise ration on this topic is pretty bad.  I did go back on MS to see if there was any good discussion on this issue, and found the thread from 2019, but since then both Aspen and Garmin have introduced new products. 

So, MSers, what opinions do you have on this question? Looking forward to your answers, and thanks in advance. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by CoffeeCan

[LANCECASPER]

  On 2/7/2022 at 5:56 PM, CoffeeCan said:

As previously posted, my M20K (N5779R) was written off as a total loss by the insurance company after my engine-out forced landing 9/30/21. I received the check from the insurance company in December, and have been sitting on it while weighing my options. 

I won't go into a lot of detail on my deliberations, suffice to say that I considered other aircraft (primarily Bonanza, but I also looked hard at transitioning to a twin). But when I discussed my primary and secondary missions, it really came down to getting another M20K, either a 231 or a 252. I have been back and forth with Jimmy Garrison since shortly after Christmas but realistically I was just in window-shopping mode until recently. I have decided to enter into a contract with Jimmy on a 1984 231, and I'm pretty comfortable with that. 

My only hesitation is with respect to this aircraft's avionics. It has 1984 instruments, of course, with a GPS upgrade to a Garmin GTN-750. I haven't used one of these before, but everything I read and hear about them is very positive. It also has a Garmin GTX-330ES ADS-B, and Garmin GDL-88 ADS-B datalink. The autopilot is a King KFC-150 /Flight Director/Glideslope-Glidepath coupling feature. It does not have a decent engine monitor. 

My previous bird had an Aspen Evolution 1000 PFD, and after I became familiar with its features and capabilities I really liked it. I also became very familiar with the JPI 800 series monitor, and quite frankly I do not want to fly a 231 that doesn't have at least an 800 series monitor. Finally, I'm wondering if the KFC-150 is functional enough to keep, or if I should be looking at replacing that with an autopilot of more recent vintage. 

So as I see it today, I'm going to be installing a glass PFD and a JPI engine monitor, +/- a new autopilot.  I'm trying to figure out whether the GTN-750 can be coupled with an Aspen PFD, or whether I need to install a Garmin G1000 (or other Garmin) for optimal compatibility and utility. The question comes down to 1) compatibility, 2) capability, and 3) cost. I have a comfortable but not extravagant budget for the avionics  upgrades. I

There is a bewildering plethora of opinions and data on these issues on the www, and since opinions are as ubiquitous as buttholes, my searches have been frustrating. Let's just say the signal-to-noise ration on this topic is pretty bad.  I did go back on MS to see if there was any good discussion on this issue, and found the thread from 2019, but since then both Aspen and Garmin have introduced new products. 

So, MSers, what opinions do you have on this question? Looking forward to your answers, and thanks in advance. 

Expand  

You won't be able to install a Garmin G1000 since that's not available for the aftermarket.

There has been a quantum leap in avionics in the past decade, but especially the past 5 years. Six years ago before the G3X, etc I bought an original panel 1993 M Model and kept the KFC150 and added Aspens and Avidyne equipment. However, as much as I liked my Aspens, since the intro of the GFC500 autopilot and the Dynon panels, keeping in mind that your autopilot is approaching 40 years old, if I was to start on the same airplane today I would narrow it down to 2 choices;

Garmin G3x (or TXI if I wanted the deluxe Garmin panel), G5, Garmin Engine monitor built in, Garmin GFC500. You already have the GTN750 and could upgrade to the 750Xi if you wanted Safe Glide.

or

Dynon HDX with built in engine monitor, understanding that the autopilot is still in the works, but that since Dynon owns a mid body Mooney and is working on that airplane autopilot approval as we speak it will happen most likely sometime late 2022. Your GTN 750 will work well with this. This option would be at least $10K less the the Garmin and maybe closer to 20k less depending on options. @Baker Avionics would be able to walk you through this better.

Personally I would fly the airplane at least a year and work out all of the little glitches that come with every new-to-you airplane and maybe even until Oshkosh 2023 and then make the decision. Who knows what changes or upgrades will happen in that time?

[PeteMc]

  On 2/7/2022 at 5:56 PM, CoffeeCan said:

I'm trying to figure out whether the GTN-750 can be coupled with an Aspen PFD

Expand  

I have the Aspen Pro MAX coupled with my GTN. 

Also have the KFC200 with no issues.  One thing you might consider is having the servos pulled out and cleaned and inspected.  Odds are they'll last a LOT longer if you get the typical carbon and crud that  builds up in them cleaned out.  Friend of mine with a 212 Trophy just had to replace a servo they think because of all the crap that had built up over the years. 

 

[CoffeeCan]

  On 2/7/2022 at 6:16 PM, LANCECASPER said:

Garmin G3x (or TXI if I wanted the deluxe Garmin panel), G5, Garmin Engine monitor built in, Garmin GFC500. You already have the GTN750 and could upgrade to the 750Xi if you wanted Safe Glide.

or

Dynon HDX with built in engine monitor, understanding that the autopilot is still in the works, but that since Dynon owns a mid body Mooney and is working on that airplane autopilot approval as we speak it will happen most likely sometime late 2022. Your GTN 750 will work well with this. This option would be at least $10K less the the Garmin and maybe closer to 20k less depending on options. @Baker Avionics would be able to walk you through this better.

Personally I would fly the airplane at least a year and work out all of the little glitches that come with every new-to-you airplane and maybe even until Oshkosh 2023 and then make the decision. Who knows what changes or upgrades will happen in that time?

Expand  

LC, thanks for that response. I had not looked at Dynon at all until now... and the HDX system seems to be pretty capable! I do like the idea of having the engine monitor integrated into the unit. 

As for flying the bird as is for a while... I didn't mention that option as one I'm considering, but yes, I was wondering if that might be useful. I already have 450 hours in M20K aircraft (mostly my 231 but about 16 hours in a 252) so I'm pretty comfortable with the type, so it's not that I need to log more time in type. But waiting to see what else might be coming from the avionics manufacturers in the next year or so has some merit. 

[CoffeeCan]

  On 2/7/2022 at 6:19 PM, philip_g said:

I'm with him. G3x (I prefer the g500 txi) and keep the GPS navcom. Add another Garmin com, go with remote transponder and have a new panel cut so it's clean. Do the gfc500 so there are no annoying interface issues. Anything else I can spend your money on? Happy to do it.

Expand  

Great! My wife doesn't spend my money nearly fast enough... 

[CoffeeCan]

  On 2/7/2022 at 7:40 PM, PeteMc said:

I have the Aspen Pro MAX coupled with my GTN. 

Also have the KFC200 with no issues.  One thing you might consider is having the servos pulled out and cleaned and inspected.  Odds are they'll last a LOT longer if you get the typical carbon and crud that  builds up in them cleaned out.  Friend of mine with a 212 Trophy just had to replace a servo they think because of all the crap that had built up over the years. 

 

Expand  

Pete, good to know. Thanks.

[TNIndy]

I'm in the middle of installing a 10" Dynon Skyview now. The Dynon team is a great group to work with. I had planned on flying for a year as LANCECASPER suggested to you. When several older components failed in a two week time period I gave up and moved forward with the upgrade. I suggest planning ahead in case something similar happens. Also, scope creep was a real issue for me. I can't tell you how many times I've decided to "replace it while everything is apart" 

[Danb]

  On 2/7/2022 at 8:16 PM, CoffeeCan said:

Great! My wife doesn't spend my money nearly fast enough... 

Expand  

have her work on that a little bit

[Will.iam]

  On 2/7/2022 at 7:40 PM, PeteMc said:

I have the Aspen Pro MAX coupled with my GTN. 

Also have the KFC200 with no issues.  One thing you might consider is having the servos pulled out and cleaned and inspected.  Odds are they'll last a LOT longer if you get the typical carbon and crud that  builds up in them cleaned out.  Friend of mine with a 212 Trophy just had to replace a servo they think because of all the crap that had built up over the years. 

 

Expand  

Who did you get to pull and clean your servos?

[1980Mooney]

A few years ago an Aspen 1000 or 2000 was a natural recommendation.  However a lot has changed.  The Garmin offering has become broader and more capable as has Dynon Certified.  Based on the majority of comments in this topic and elsewhere in MS as well as on Beechtalk and Pilots of America most seem to be recommending full Garmin (especially if a new autopilot is part of the install) and Dynon.  

Aspen was advanced for its time but in the ensuing 15 years has only added a faster processor and brighter screen. Here is a topic by a K owner discussing the same issue that you raise.  He has Aspen and Century 41 AP.  Everyone seems to be holding off on upgrading, adding a new or another Aspen - the Garmin GFC500 autopilot won't work with it.

Replacement Autopilot - Modern Mooney Discussion - Mooneyspace.com - A community for Mooney aircraft owners and enthusiasts

I think Garmin and Dynon will put Aspen out of business other than repair of existing units.