New Garmin Panel - making sure it all works!

[PT20J]

The avionics shop is just about done calibrating everything and will turn the airplane over to me shortly after installing a G3X, G5, GTN 650Xi, GNC 255A, GFC 500, GTX 345, PMA 450B and a few other odds and ends per the attached specification.

With this much rework being done involving a lot of wiring changes and software configuration, something is almost certain to be amiss. I want to make sure that I test everything I can think of to verify proper operation before I leave the shop. So, I wrote the attached test cards for an acceptance test on the ground and in flight. 

I'm pretty sure I forgot a thing or two. Feel free to offer suggestions, and also feel free to use any of this if you are contemplating a similar project.

Skip

Glass panel R3.docx

G3X Ground Check.xlsx

G3X Flight Check.xlsx

[201Mooniac]

A couple of suggested things, I would verify the compass is still properly aligning, I didn't see any test for VNAV which many have had configuration issues with and I didn't see failover scenarios.

[PT20J]

21 minutes ago, 201Mooniac said:

A couple of suggested things, I would verify the compass is still properly aligning, I didn't see any test for VNAV which many have had configuration issues with and I didn't see failover scenarios.

Great points -- I'll add some things. Thanks!

[201Mooniac]

The other thing I  meant to say is make sure you give yourself a lot of time.  I had planned about 4-5 hours for the full checkout on my last major panel work and found I could have used a few more.  Next major panel work I'll plan a full 8 hours just to not be rushed about anything.

[carusoam]

Nicely thought out Skip!

Great Qualification documents for new machinery!

Great lesson for anyone that hasn’t shaken down a panel full of new stuff before… 

Thanks for sharing them.

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

I told the shop that I want to have a day with it in the hangar on ground power when they are done.

Tim at Crown Aviation at KPAE has just been great to work with. Very meticulous, excellent craftsman and open to suggestions.

Skip

[Ulysse]

Great contribution. I wish I had this when I took delivery of my plane! It would have saved me a lot of frustration.

[Jim Peace]

my total panel install took several visits to make it right.

my compass (G5) was not swung properly and off by a lot.

Auto pilot did not track properly until it was found that and Stec needed some extra wire to the flux capacitor etc...

VNAV is still not the way I want it.  There is a choice between VNAV calc and traditional VNAV ...right now I am in VNAV calc...

point is if you think you are going to have the ability to jump in and go fly IFR when leaving the shop,,,,think again...

 

 

[Flash]

7 hours ago, PT20J said:

The avionics shop is just about done calibrating everything and will turn the airplane over to me shortly after installing a G3X, G5, GTN 650Xi, GNC 255A, GFC 500, GTX 345, PMA 450B and a few other odds and ends per the attached specification.

With this much rework being done involving a lot of wiring changes and software configuration, something is almost certain to be amiss. I want to make sure that I test everything I can think of to verify proper operation before I leave the shop. So, I wrote the attached test cards for an acceptance test on the ground and in flight. 

I'm pretty sure I forgot a thing or two. Feel free to offer suggestions, and also feel free to use any of this if you are contemplating a similar project.

Skip

Glass panel R3.docx 26.4 kB · 16 downloads

G3X Ground Check.xlsx 13.76 kB · 13 downloads

G3X Flight Check.xlsx 12.1 kB · 8 downloads

Wow. I just read your instruction memo on the work to be done on your plane. It is impressively thorough. How did you go about preparing it? How much was in consultation with the installer, and how much was your own legwork in figuring out what you wanted done?

Also, I had never thought about removing the marker beacon antenna, but now that I've googled it and also read the thread you started about it on Mooneyspace, it makes some sense (at least in your case, where you could buy a cheaper audio panel). I'm also curious about pulling the Stormscope antenna; do you have another source of realtime lightning detection (without the ADSB delay)? And does removing the KN64 and the DME antenna cost you a useful backup if there is ever a GPS outage?

Enjoy your new panel.

[PeteMc]

Don't know if you've flown other planes with similar equip.  But if not, I'm going to toss in my THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF EXPERIENCE and *NOT* so much with the Glass Panel.

First few flights I went up with various pilot buddies in the right seat to be looking out the  window because there were multiple times I'd do A, B, C..... ummm....   now why isn't D doing what I thought it was going to do...  (Or... where the H*ll is D!)

And I know you know this, but just taking a perch on your shoulder saying it's VERY much heads down playing with all the new gear on the first few flights - even when you tell yourself to keep looking out the window.  Not that it took a long time get through the basics.  But there is a LOT of muscle memory to unlearn and all the new places to reach, tap, twist, etc. to learn.  And the friends I fly with have vintage panels like I used to had.  So did I ever feel like a pre-solo newbie after the first couple of flights.   

Let us know where your head was at when you shut down after the first flight.

[EricJ]

A few things I'd watch out for, just from personal experience, especially with the PMA450B:

Take a few different kinds of headsets and try them for both Tx and Rx.   My lightspeed apparently has different impedances than some, and it took a while to get things configured so that my lightspeed and my Faros, et al, would all work.    I think I wound up having to change some dipswitch settings on the headset, but this is how I discovered that they are not all created equal.

I had some sort of issue with the PMA450B that the pax side did not get the side channel.   I don't recall what the fix was.

For some reason my PMA450B only provides audio in the left channel when Intelliaudio is turned off.   I'm not sure that ever got fixed.

During Tx tests, do some long transmits, like reading back a clearance or something.   I had an intermittent problem where the COM1 breaker would blow only once in a while, and it took us forever to figure out that it was on long transmissions, and due to the installed breaker being the incorrect one and too small.   At first we thought it was "Bob's" fault because it mostly only blew when he used it (my CFII), but it was just because he's really long-winded on the radio.

Somehow test that you get the audio callouts from the GPS/Navigator or from all the sources that you should be getting them.   In my case it was a miswire problem that had to be corrected, since this is a separate input to the PMA450B.

If anything has WiFi, make sure that it is discoverable and will connect.   Likewise anything that should be BT discoverable.   I see you had a test for the PMA450B, but in my case the Avidyne also has BT and it was initially not working.

Make sure the things that are supposed to be wired to the Master are, and likewise the Avionics bus.    Mine came back with the Cies senders wired to Avionics power, so you couldn't check fuel level during preflight without turning the Avionics bus on.   They're supposed to be wired to Master.

Edited October 16, 2021 by EricJ

[jamesm]

if you haven't done so already .... I would put a micro SD card in the G5 enable the data logging feature. Which has probably already done. after a couple of your ground runs pull the data off the G5 and see if you see anything that looks out of the norm. That way you will have a baseline. This may help in future trouble shooting if it's ever needed.

Have fun with your new avionics setup.

James '67C

Edited October 16, 2021 by jamesm

[PT20J]

On 10/15/2021 at 12:14 AM, Flash said:

Wow. I just read your instruction memo on the work to be done on your plane. It is impressively thorough. How did you go about preparing it? How much was in consultation with the installer, and how much was your own legwork in figuring out what you wanted done?

Also, I had never thought about removing the marker beacon antenna, but now that I've googled it and also read the thread you started about it on Mooneyspace, it makes some sense (at least in your case, where you could buy a cheaper audio panel). I'm also curious about pulling the Stormscope antenna; do you have another source of realtime lightning detection (without the ADSB delay)? And does removing the KN64 and the DME antenna cost you a useful backup if there is ever a GPS outage?

Enjoy your new panel.

To understand the capabilities and limitations of the equipment and determine what I wanted, I spent a lot of time reading manuals, reviewing MS posts, watching Garmin instructional videos and asking questions of Garmin support . The shop that is doing the installation also has a flight school and rental fleet and has equipped two of its C-172Ns with a similar setup so I had some airplanes to fly to gain familiarity.

The WX 900 Stormscope is unmaintainable. The display was bad when I bought the airplane. I replaced it with a eBay unit for $500 and it lasted a year before the backlight went bad. After talking to Valentine Aviation about it, I learned that displays and backlights are the Achilles heal of this model. I decided I don't need to get anywhere badly enough to dodge embedded thunderstorms anyway, so I just decided to not replace it with something more maintainable.

I thought about keeping the DME, but the G3X and iPad also have GPS capability in a pinch. My primary goal with the upgrade was improved reliability so I decided to expunge all the old stuff from the panel.

Skip

[IFLYIFR]

Skip and others, I am thinking about installing a similar set of new avionics as Skip is installing.  I currently have 2018 installed equipment (G5 AI, G5 HSI, GTX-345), 2005 vintage equipment (GNS430W (2), S-TEC 30 with Altitude hold, GMA 340, Garmin CDI 106A), and original Mooney equipment that came new with my 1990 M20J (Airspeed indicator, Altimeter, VSI, engine gauges (L/R fuel qty, fuel pressure, oil pressure, oil temp, CHT, ammeter/voltmeter, EGT, OAT, MP, and Shadin fuel flow). I am thinking about installing a GTN750xi, GNC355, Flight Stream 510, GMA 345, GFC 500, and a GI275 EIS/GEA24/probes, pilot-side GSB15 dual USB C.  I might also install either a 10.6" landscape G3X Touch with EIS (and keep one of my G5s as backup AI) or instead of the G3X Touch, a 10.6" G500Txi with EIS and a new GI275 as the backup AI.  I have three questions for Skip (and others please):  1.  why did you select the G3X Touch instead of the G500Txi?  2.  If I install either the G3X with EIS or the G500Txi with EIS and the screen fails in flight, on which device, if any, are the engine instruments visible?  3.  Do you have any suggestions about adds or deletes from the above avionics list?  Also, the documents that Skip posted are "no longer available" when I click them to download.  Can you repost them.  Thanks to all.  John

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, IFLYIFR said:

Skip and others, I am thinking about installing a similar set of new avionics as Skip is installing.  I currently have 2018 installed equipment (G5 AI, G5 HSI, GTX-345), 2005 vintage equipment (GNS430W (2), S-TEC 30 with Altitude hold, GMA 340, Garmin CDI 106A), and original Mooney equipment that came new with my 1990 M20J (Airspeed indicator, Altimeter, VSI, engine gauges (L/R fuel qty, fuel pressure, oil pressure, oil temp, CHT, ammeter/voltmeter, EGT, OAT, MP, and Shadin fuel flow). I am thinking about installing a GTN750xi, GNC355, Flight Stream 510, GMA 345, GFC 500, and a GI275 EIS/GEA24/probes, pilot-side GSB15 dual USB C.  I might also install either a 10.6" landscape G3X Touch with EIS (and keep one of my G5s as backup AI) or instead of the G3X Touch, a 10.6" G500Txi with EIS and a new GI275 as the backup AI.  I have three questions for Skip (and others please):  1.  why did you select the G3X Touch instead of the G500Txi?  2.  If I install either the G3X with EIS or the G500Txi with EIS and the screen fails in flight, on which device, if any, are the engine instruments visible?  3.  Do you have any suggestions about adds or deletes from the above avionics list?  Also, the documents that Skip posted are "no longer available" when I click them to download.  Can you repost them.  Thanks to all.  John

I chose the G3X because I was replacing the KAP 150 with a GFC 500. The G3X Touch, G5 and GFC 500 were designed together as a system. The TXi has better integration with third party avionics and would probably be a better choice for the S-TEC 30.

With the G3X, you can connect to a iPad running Garmin Pilot to display the EIS information. With a TXi I believe you can also do this if you have a Flight Stream 510.

Not sure why you cannot download the docs -- I just tried and they worked for me. Is anyone else having trouble? I am updating them and will post the updated versions soon.

Skip 

[201Mooniac]

While I prefer the display on the G500 TXi, the improvement over the G3X is marginal and I wouldn't use that as the determining factor.  For me the determining factor would be interoperability.  If you need to interface with non-Garmin equipment then you'll want the G500 TXi.  If everything, including the AP is Garmin as it seems from your list, then the G3X should provide the same utility.  The G3X is better integrated with the GFC-500 as it will drive the GFC-500 itself where the G500 TXi will not.  In the end cost I believe will favor the G3X.  I do love my G500 TXi though :-)

[IFLYIFR]

Thanks for your quick feedback. I use ForeFlight instead of Garmin Pilot, so I won’t be able use my iPad for backup EIS. I’m planning to replace the S-Tec 30 with the GFC 500, so it sounds like I should go with the G3X Touch instead of the G500TXi. Also, I was able to download the three documents you posted; they are impressive! I’m looking forward to the updated versions.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[IFLYIFR]

Thanks for your feedback on the G3X and it’s integration with the G500 and GFC 500. I re-read the G3X section of the Garmin website and just found the answer about the EIS:

“Reliably Reversionary

In configurations where multiple displays are installed, the G3X Touch system offers extra peace of mind. In the unlikely event of a display shutdown or failure, a reversionary mode enables your remaining operational touchscreen to consolidate and present all essential flight information, including EIS data when installed.”

The installation needs to include two G3Xs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PT20J]

I would not add a second GDU just to cover the possibility of the primary display failing and losing engine monitoring capability. I don't really need the engine gauges to safely operate the engine to complete the flight. Besides, if something is going to fail, who's to say that it will be the GDU and not the GEA 24?

Everyone probably has different objectives. In my case, I was after reliability so I wanted to minimize the installed equipment since everything in the panel has a finite probability of failure and the more units you have the greater the probability that something will fail on any given flight. And, Murphy's law states that a failure will occur at the worst possible time.

I gave a lot of thought to how much redundancy I really need. I limited my failure analysis to single point failures which I think is reasonable given the reliability of modern avionics. Given any single LRU failure, I can still aviate, navigate and communicate with my setup. I was concerned about only two AHRS using the same technology so I added a third from a different manufacturer as a tie breaker. I also retained the emergency headphone jacks to which I added a PTT switch because a stuck pilot's PTT is a possibility and would be very distracting to deal with.

Skip

[PT20J]

Updated test cards. Nothing improves understanding like figuring out how to test it.

G3X Ground Check.xlsx

G3X Flight Check.xlsx