New guy here looking into Mooney ownership.

[270win]

I am a 1200 hour commercial instrument pilot that up until six months ago had been out of aviation for about 10 years. I sold my Cessna 182 when my need to fly for business ended. Big mistake! I figured I would rent airplanes and fly for recreation but I never found anything to rent that didn’t rank as garbage in my book.

Fortunately, the business I currently own has expanded to the point that I can at least justify buying an airplane. I started out looking at Cessna 182s again, but as much as I loved mine, I can’t really say I ever loved the way they fly. I also didn’t really care for the high wing. All of my training was in warriors, archers and arrows so I guess it’s just preferring what I started with. 
 

So I’ve been researching airplanes for my current mission. My average trip will be single pilot, 300 nautical miles and until I catch up with the new technology and become IFR proficient again I’ll mainly be conducting daytime VFR flights. 
 

The more research I’ve done, the more attractive a Mooney M20C thru F are to me. I like the manual gear, the strong airframe and the cruise speeds the Mooney offers. What I really need to know is the known common problems and advantages of the various models. I’m looking forward to getting plugged into this community and getting my next airplane.

 

 

[Missile=Awesome]

Jack O’Connor says “Hello”

[The Other Red Baron]

Unless you're going for the cheapest thing you can get I think it'll be easy to whittle down your choices between models.

C - 180HP, carb, short body

D - 180HP, carb, short body, welded gear (most I saw for sale seem to be converted to retract)

E - 200HP, fuel injected, short body, fastest of the C - F models (but probably not by much see the report below)

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20F Evaluation/M20F_Evaluation_Report.html

F - 200HP , injected, stretched out 10 inches so you can bring friends along that have legs

G - 180HP ,carb, stretched like the F, not many were made.

 

I'm a partner in an E.  If I had to do it all over again and choose between these models I'd go with the F.  I'd only lose a knot or two and I find myself stuffing the plane full of crap anytime I take the wife anywhere.

Edited October 4, 2020 by The Other Red Baron

[Missile=Awesome]

If your mission is primarily one a C or E best equipped you can find is the most cost effective.  F’s are more $

-tubular corrosion

-Fuel tank sealant breakdown (leaks)

-Spar corrosion (these planes are over 50 years old)

Do your google search rather than on here.  Lots of good info over last ten years.  Many have asked this same question.  Many will have opinions.  

I had an E.  If you are <6’ YOU CAN PUT INDIVIDUALS WITH LEGS IN THE BACK SEATS...

[The Other Red Baron]

That's true, if you google search this site you can dig up a lot of good information.

Go to google and make your search string something like...

site:mooneyspace.com e vs f

site:mooneyspace.com manual vs electric gear

etc..

 

[270win]

I don’t necessarily want the cheapest plane I can find. I’m budgeting 75k for the purchase and initial expenses. I am seeing what appear to be nice F models to some cheaper C models that I could put pretty good money into immediately.

[The Other Red Baron]

Have you seen Stephen's F in the classifieds? That's exactly what I would go for around your budget.  I've got a manual gear on the E and I like it but some people like the idea of it and then realize flicking that gear lever is way easier/cooler

I actually wanted us to buy Stephen's F about two(?) years or so ago but it had to take a trip to the shop as he explains in his post. 

 

 

[Skates97]

55 minutes ago, The Other Red Baron said:

D - 180HP, carb, short body, welded gear (most I saw for sale seem to be converted to retract)

A few years ago I believe there were only 3 left flying that were still fixed gear, all the others were converted decades ago (pretty much as soon as they were built). Essentially they are all now the same as a C.

[carusoam]

1) If you like speed and efficiency... Go Mooney!
 

2) If you like the most stable platform for IFR flight... Go Mooney!

3) If you like the idea of flying the fastest, Factory built, four seat, airplane.... Go Mooney!

4) I could go and make this a full list of 10 items that would make you even more interested... but I digress.... 

 

Lets work on the selection process...

5) Longer airframes fit the people more comfortably... 

6) Turbocharging the engine increases the capability...

7) All Mooneys can be updated with tons of various nav com And display equipment...

Taking the work out of building your own...

8) Find somebody selling their forever plane.... 

9) Forever planes get taken care of really well and get updates that aren’t necessarily Economically sensible..

10) Once you go Mooney, you never leave... until turbines, Twins, or six seaters call your name... 

darn... I made another top 10 list while digressing....

How can MS help you reach your next level?

NA engines make a lot of sense for 300nm trips...

Short body Mooneys make great retirement planes...

Mid Body Mooneys are great when you have full grown adults in the back like your finance administrator...

Turbos and TNs are great if you like to be a modern sailor...

Take a look at the M20F posted above... it has a lot of features like somebody’s Forever plane... but, and fortunately, Stephen is still with us... his business is growing quickly too...

Best regards,

-a-

[270win]

I just reached out to Stephen F.

[270win]

12 minutes ago, carusoam said:

1) If you like speed and efficiency... Go Mooney!
 

2) If you like the most stable platform for IFR flight... Go Mooney!

3) If you like the idea of flying the fastest, Factory built, four seat, airplane.... Go Mooney!

4) I could go and make this a full list of 10 items that would make you even more interested... but I digress.... 

 

Lets work on the selection process...

5) Longer airframes fit the people more comfortably... 

6) Turbocharging the engine increases the capability...

7) All Mooneys can be updated with tons of various nav com And display equipment...

Taking the work out of building your own...

8) Find somebody selling their forever plane.... 

9) Forever planes get taken care of really well and get updates that aren’t necessarily Economically sensible..

10) Once you go Mooney, you never leave... until turbines, Twins, or six seaters call your name... 

darn... I made another top 10 list while digressing....

How can MS help you reach your next level?

Best regards,

-a-

Good advice, especially the part about buying someone else’s forever plane. My 182 was a forever plane. The guy that bought it saved 10s of thousands.

[Hank]

My C walks away from 182s, a little faster than an F walks away from me. And I travel on 10-15% less fuel than a 172 . . . .

You're really going to enjoy owning a good Mooney!

[270win]

28 minutes ago, carusoam said:

1) If you like speed and efficiency... Go Mooney!
 

2) If you like the most stable platform for IFR flight... Go Mooney!

3) If you like the idea of flying the fastest, Factory built, four seat, airplane.... Go Mooney!

4) I could go and make this a full list of 10 items that would make you even more interested... but I digress.... 

 

Lets work on the selection process...

5) Longer airframes fit the people more comfortably... 

6) Turbocharging the engine increases the capability...

7) All Mooneys can be updated with tons of various nav com And display equipment...

Taking the work out of building your own...

8) Find somebody selling their forever plane.... 

9) Forever planes get taken care of really well and get updates that aren’t necessarily Economically sensible..

10) Once you go Mooney, you never leave... until turbines, Twins, or six seaters call your name... 

darn... I made another top 10 list while digressing....

How can MS help you reach your next level?

Best regards,

-a-

If I ever have less flexibility on mission timing, I’ll buy a twin. I’m no longer a huge fan of low IFR and night single engine ops. 

[carusoam]

My challenge with twins... 

1) Another long list...

2) That makes turbines the next level from here more likely...  The next best thing is the Acclaim with its two TNs...  

3) both Make sense from a business flying perspective...

4) Single engine Ops challenges, and me, and my neighborhood.... I can’t get enough flight time to be proficient for the twin...
 

5) Want to contact our insurance guy to help with the comparison? Parker is around here somewhere...

6) The Single engine land thing rocks for cost efficiency...
 

PP thoughts only, not a pro pilot...

Best regards,

-a-

[270win]

10 minutes ago, Hank said:

My C walks away from 182s, a little faster than an F walks away from me. And I travel on 10-15% less fuel than a 172 . . . .

You're really going to enjoy owning a good Mooney!

That’s another thing, 130kts gets old. 
 

I’m looking forward to flying something that’s more responsive to control inputs too.

[Hank]

Just now, 270win said:

That’s another thing, 130kts gets old. 
 

I’m looking forward to flying something that’s more responsive to control inputs too.

My C often trues 147-148 KTAS at or above 7500msl. I carry 5-1/2 hours fuel, plus 670 Useful Load. But I run out of space well before I run out of payload . . . . Fs have more space, carry the same fuel duration but 12 gallons more.

[270win]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

My C often trues 147-148 KTAS at or above 7500msl. I carry 5-1/2 hours fuel, plus 670 Useful Load. But I run out of space well before I run out of payload . . . . Fs have more space, carry the same fuel duration but 12 gallons more.

My reservation with the F is the electric gear. Is that a non-issue? I liked that I could pack 4 adults, bags and full fuel into my 182....but I never did that in 10 years of ownership.

[Missile=Awesome]

1 hour ago, 270win said:

I don’t necessarily want the cheapest plane I can find. I’m budgeting 75k for the purchase and initial expenses. I am seeing what appear to be nice F models to some cheaper C models that I could put pretty good money into immediately.

Not sure why you said that first sentence?  I said buy the nicest equipped C or E...They are Not cheap if they have a good auto pilot and GPSW, ADSB.  I simply said F’s COST MORE...and you said your mission was primarily YOU...So the ten inches isn’t of much value...Perhaps I didn’t clearly understand your mission.  My bad.

[270win]

18 minutes ago, carusoam said:

My challenge with twins... 

1) Another long list...

2) That makes turbines the next level from here more likely...  The next best thing is the Acclaim with its two TNs...  

3) both Make sense from a business flying perspective...

4) Single engine Ops challenges, and me, and my neighborhood.... I can’t get enough flight time to be proficient for the twin...
 

5) Want to contact our insurance guy to help with the comparison? Parker is around here somewhere...

6) The Single engine land thing rocks for cost efficiency...
 

PP thoughts only, not a pro pilot...

Best regards,

-a-

My thoughts on a twin. Anything that makes my being there by a deadline = more money in my pocket. Enough to offset the cost of ownership plus proficiency training/practice. 
 

If I’m flying turbine then money is no longer a topic of consideration. :-)

[carusoam]

The older Mooneys are available in both the electric and manual gear...

Every now and then, a shoulder challenge can make for a crummy day...

For the most part there are known speeds that make the transition require very little power... 

If you have painful shoulder motion challenges, electric gear may be the way to go...  

As a young buck... I really liked my all mechanical M20C...

Unfortunately, mine was no where near as nice as Hank’s is...

After a decade, it was time to make a change...

During the decision process... We looked at Js... then Missiles... then Ovation.

M20Cs can be really wonderful planes... so many have become forever planes over the years...

Best regards,

-a-

[The Other Red Baron]

Just now, Missile=Awesome said:

Not sure why you said that first sentence? 

Cause I said it.    I figured if he was including C in his search he might be looking for something with a lower pricetag than an F.

[270win]

2 minutes ago, Missile=Awesome said:

Not sure why you said that first sentence?  I said buy the nicest equipped C or E...They are Not cheap if they have a good auto pilot and GPSW, ADSB.  I simply said F’s COST MORE...and you said your mission was primarily YOU...So the ten inches isn’t of much value...Perhaps I didn’t clearly understand your mission.  My bad.

Sorry, I was simply saying that a cheap price wasn’t my primary goal. I may have misunderstood your reply.

[Missile=Awesome]

2 minutes ago, 270win said:

Sorry, I was simply saying that a cheap price wasn’t my primary goal. I may have misunderstood your reply.

I missed that comment by Red.  My bad.

[270win]

5 minutes ago, carusoam said:

The older Mooneys are available in both the electric and manual gear...

Every now and then, a shoulder challenge can make for a crummy day...

For the most part there are known speeds that make the transition require very little power... 

If you have painful shoulder motion challenges, electric gear may be the way to go...  

As a young buck... I really liked my all mechanical M20C...

Unfortunately, mine was no where near as nice as Hank’s is...

After a decade, it was time to make a change...

During the decision process... We looked at Js... then Missiles... then Ovation.

M20Cs can be really wonderful planes... so many have become forever planes over the years...

Best regards,

-a-

Good reply, I’m 50 and have had rotator cuff surgery. Are there any known issues with the electric gear?

[Hank]

16 minutes ago, 270win said:

My reservation with the F is the electric gear. Is that a non-issue? I liked that I could pack 4 adults, bags and full fuel into my 182....but I never did that in 10 years of ownership.

Every Mooney built starting in 1969 has had electric gear. So few manual gear models were sold in 67/68 thwt the optional electric gear was made standard. I've had no trouble with mine since I bought it in June 2007.

I like the electric gear. My right shoulder surgery was 5-1/2 years pre-Mooney, and I don't think moving the gear would be a problem. But I'm glad I don't ever need to worry about it.