380 mile commute. What is the best Mooney for $125,000 purchase price?

[Willie]

9 hours ago, Missile=Awesome said:

GMax has a Missile that was Don’s keeper plane for travel.  With negotiation this plane could be obtained below the current budget.  This checks normally aspirated box preference, useful load for family (>1000) and decent panel for IFR that is definitely upgradeable...

This one has my eye. There is another Missile on trade a plane for 90k that needs a panel upgrade big time . That one could be cool too.

[Bob - S50]

Just now, Willie said:

Apparently Mooney’s are flying off the shelves. This J as well as the other 4 Mooney’s  they had for sale are all pending. All their planes were priced well so that makes sense.
 

The idea of buying something like that and doing the panel upgrade you mention is cool. However it does go against the traditional advice of not adding your own avionics. Maybe that advice is changing a bit with some of these more reasonably priced upgrades like the G5’s and GFC500.

I generally agree that it is usually cheaper to buy an airplane equipped the way you like than it is to buy one that isn't and then do the upgrades.  However, if the equipment is not quite what you want, it's cheaper to do it yourself.  For example, if I was looking for an airplane I'd want a GTNxxx or Avidyne GPS.  If the airplane had a GNSxxx, that's an expensive piece of equipment that I would not personally be happy with.  While it is very capable, there are several features of the newer GPS units that make them much easier to use for IFR flights.  In that case, I'd rather the airplane did not have a GPS at all so I could install what I want.

Same with and engine monitor.  While a JPI 700 would work, I'd rather have a 730 or better.  I'd want ADS-B OUT and IN.  So if someone installed a unit that paired with a 40 year old mode C transponder that only got me OUT, I would rather have no ADS-B so I could yank the old transponder and replace it with a GTX345 or equivalent.

You have to know what your minimum standards are for your panel when looking at the installed equipment.

[JT]

10 minutes ago, Willie said:

This one has my eye. There is another Missile on trade a plane for 90k that needs a panel upgrade big time . That one could be cool too.

You'll need to vet the engine on the TAP Missile. It hasn't flown enough since the conversion. And look extra close at tube corrosion because of the age. Otherwise that could be a viable plan for your budget/needs.

Did you know that Jimmy lists his inventory here before it goes on the market?

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/35783-new-unadvertised-inventory/

 

[ArtVandelay]

Apparently Mooney’s are flying off the shelves. This J as well as the other 4 Mooney’s  they had for sale are all pending. All their planes were priced well so that makes sense.
 
The idea of buying something like that and doing the panel upgrade you mention is cool. However it does go against the traditional advice of not adding your own avionics. Maybe that advice is changing a bit with some of these more reasonably priced upgrades like the G5’s and GFC500.

The longer you keep the plane, the more it makes sense to upgrade it. So, is this your forever plane or just a plane to fly for now?

[donkaye]

Upgrading a panel is not for the faint of heart or for a light pocketbook.  Mine took longer than anticipated, but cost what I anticipated.  The problem was that Garmin kept coming up with new goodies that I just had to have, so two more panel changes later I have exactly what I want.  It made sense for me to do what I did rather than buy a new airplane.  I wouldn't like to go through the process again.

[carusoam]

The Traditional advice of not adding avionics, seems to have lost something in translation....

Buy the plane with every everything installed already... is a low cost methodology...

But not adding avionics when needed would be bad economics...
 

It’s fun to be a CB... but it does have its limits... 
 

Carry on...

Best regards,

-a-

[Willie]

On 9/15/2020 at 9:59 PM, Bob - S50 said:

I generally agree that it is usually cheaper to buy an airplane equipped the way you like than it is to buy one that isn't and then do the upgrades.  However, if the equipment is not quite what you want, it's cheaper to do it yourself.  For example, if I was looking for an airplane I'd want a GTNxxx or Avidyne GPS.  If the airplane had a GNSxxx, that's an expensive piece of equipment that I would not personally be happy with.  While it is very capable, there are several features of the newer GPS units that make them much easier to use for IFR flights.  In that case, I'd rather the airplane did not have a GPS at all so I could install what I want.

Same with and engine monitor.  While a JPI 700 would work, I'd rather have a 730 or better.  I'd want ADS-B OUT and IN.  So if someone installed a unit that paired with a 40 year old mode C transponder that only got me OUT, I would rather have no ADS-B so I could yank the old transponder and replace it with a GTX345 or equivalent.

You have to know what your minimum standards are for your panel when looking at the installed equipment.

Understood. It’s like buying a house and paying more for the countertops they chose but don’t necessarily care for.

[Willie]

On 9/16/2020 at 1:05 AM, ArtVandelay said:

The longer you keep the plane, the more it makes sense to upgrade it. So, is this your forever plane or just a plane to fly for now?

I was told you can no longer roll proceeds from a plane sale into the next/more expensive plane. If this is true then I would be smart to spend more now and plan to keep it.

[Willie]

On 9/15/2020 at 10:15 PM, JT said:

You'll need to vet the engine on the TAP Missile. It hasn't flown enough since the conversion. And look extra close at tube corrosion because of the age. Otherwise that could be a viable plan for your budget/needs.

Did you know that Jimmy lists his inventory here before it goes on the market?

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/35783-new-unadvertised-inventory/

 

Thanks for the link. Greg got me on Jimmys email list as well so I can see what’s coming up.

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, Willie said:

I was told you can no longer roll proceeds from a plane sale into the next/more expensive plane. If this is true then I would be smart to spend more now and plan to keep it.

Check with your accountant on that...

Each state will be different...

MS has an accountant on board, that may know how to look this up...

When spending the big bucks on a long body, you may have a certain period to, sell one, buy the next, and report the details...

PP thoughts only, not a taxation expert...

Best regards,

-a-

[kmyfm20s]

3 hours ago, Willie said:

I was told you can no longer roll proceeds from a plane sale into the next/more expensive plane. If this is true then I would be smart to spend more now and plan to keep it.

In California when I bought my plane you had to do the transaction through a broker to roll the proceeds over. 

[Papogator24]

On 9/17/2020 at 6:46 PM, carusoam said:

Check with your accountant on that...

Each state will be different...

MS has an accountant on board, that may know how to look this up...

When spending the big bucks on a long body, you may have a certain period to, sell one, buy the next, and report the details...

PP thoughts only, not a taxation expert...

Best regards,

-a-

Are we talking from a standpoint of a plane being in a corp status and doing a Section 1031 exchange? 

[carusoam]

3 minutes ago, Papogator24 said:

Are we talking from a standpoint of a plane being in a corp status and doing a Section 1031 exchange? 

This was a sales tax issue...

NJ has a sales tax of about 6%... and a rule that both the selling and buying of planes needs to occur within a year or so...

That is quite a chunk of change to come up with... and credit for the old plane certainly helps...

This is a decade old memory or so... it could be fuzzy...

so... check with your local tax accountant... 
 

Best regards,

-a-

[Willie]

5 minutes ago, Papogator24 said:

Are we talking from a standpoint of a plane being in a corp status and doing a Section 1031 exchange? 

Yes. Like kind exchange is gone. Google Search “tax changes airplanes 2017 “ and a bunch of info comes up.

Basically you can’t exchange anymore but you can bonus depreciate 100% in year one. 

[Willie]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

This was a sales tax issue...

NJ has a sales tax of about 6%... and a rule that both the selling and buying of planes needs to occur within a year or so...

That is quite a chunk of change to come up with... and credit for the old plane certainly helps...

This is a decade old memory or so... it could be fuzzy...

so... check with your local tax accountant... 
 

Best regards,

-a-

I’m referring to federal only. I’m not familiar with any of the individual state rules 

[Papogator24]

9 minutes ago, carusoam said:

This was a sales tax issue...

NJ has a sales tax of about 6%... and a rule that both the selling and buying of planes needs to occur within a year or so...

That is quite a chunk of change to come up with... and credit for the old plane certainly helps...

This is a decade old memory or so... it could be fuzzy...

so... check with your local tax accountant... 
 

Best regards,

-a-

I'm a CPA. Section 1031 needs to be planned and coordinated through an intermediary. But this only applies if the plane is in a corp. The issue with the IRS s the verbiage, " if the asset is used in a trade or business.." I would have to research prior cases on what precedent has been set. 

 

[Willie]

On 9/20/2020 at 5:09 PM, Papogator24 said:

I'm a CPA. Section 1031 needs to be planned and coordinated through an intermediary. But this only applies if the plane is in a corp. The issue with the IRS s the verbiage, " if the asset is used in a trade or business.." I would have to research prior cases on what precedent has been set. 

 

Thanks for everyone’s help and suggestions. What I figured out through this thread and then further research and digging is that I would be happy with most Mooney’s for my mission. I also discovered the tax advantages are essentially non existent and I was totally wrong about what I could do or not do regarding taxes. So now I’ve decided I would rather have a partner . My schedule is flexible enough that I could make a partnership work because I have the ability to either fly commercial or the Mooney.

If anyone in KCRQ or KMYF has any interest in taking to me about a partnership please let me know. 
 

Thank you,

Will

[MooneyMike]

Just a comment on flying so high;

why not fly the LAX class B through one of the VFR corridors (Coast Route, for example) then FIM RZS and file in flight for direct? 

There is lower terrain, plenty of airports and you avoid PXN ROM which are horrible for bumps in summer and ice in fall - spring?

Just a thought. 

Mike

[Willie]

1 hour ago, MooneyMike said:

Just a comment on flying so high;

why not fly the LAX class B through one of the VFR corridors (Coast Route, for example) then FIM RZS and file in flight for direct? 

There is lower terrain, plenty of airports and you avoid PXN ROM which are horrible for bumps in summer and ice in fall - spring?

Just a thought. 

Mike

That may be an option if it’s VFR but I’m more comfortable flying IFR. Maybe as I get more in the hang of being back in a small plane I will get more adventurous and do part VFR and part IFR. 
Thanks,

Will

[carusoam]

Good Transition Training is everything...
 

What was the killer tax issue?

The good benefit used to require purchasing a brand new plane...

Which made a lot of sense for a few people running their own businesses...

Often, they start moving up their experience chain with a Long Body... for a couple of years, then Turbine... or twin Jets....

Best regards,

-a-

 

[rainman]

Willie, I recently added the O2D2 demand oxygen system to the oxygen setup in my 231. It’s simple and works well, only delivering oxygen when you inspire, thus saving your tanks. In my case it has doubled my oxygen useful time per tank. Knowing I have plenty of oxygen for all legs of my trip has been great. I use a portable pulse oximeter (cheap, $40) to monitor my oxygen requirements and often start using oxygen at 10,000 ft. If set up initially with your O2 system it will be a bit neater than mine as an add-on. Ray

[Willie]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

Good Transition Training is everything...
 

What was the killer tax issue?

The good benefit used to require purchasing a brand new plane...

Which made a lot of sense for a few people running their own businesses...

Often, they start moving up their experience chain with a Long Body... for a couple of years, then Turbine... or twin Jets....

Best regards,

-a-

 

Regarding taxes: I thought I could buy a plane and depreciate the plane fully in year one.

[Willie]

9 hours ago, rainman said:

Willie, I recently added the O2D2 demand oxygen system to the oxygen setup in my 231. It’s simple and works well, only delivering oxygen when you inspire, thus saving your tanks. In my case it has doubled my oxygen useful time per tank. Knowing I have plenty of oxygen for all legs of my trip has been great. I use a portable pulse oximeter (cheap, $40) to monitor my oxygen requirements and often start using oxygen at 10,000 ft. If set up initially with your O2 system it will be a bit neater than mine as an add-on. Ray

Good to know. I also can probably get free O2 from my work if I buy the correct adapter

[Jourdan Urbach]

On 9/15/2020 at 9:53 PM, Willie said:

This one has my eye. There is another Missile on trade a plane for 90k that needs a panel upgrade big time . That one could be cool too.

Panel upgrade is the least of that TAP plane's problems. New partner as of a few years ago was a Kennedy fellow, posted here if I recall. Might be worth reaching out to him. As I understand from speaking with the broker, the plane has barely flown since he joined, and the original owner (I forget her name) barely flew it before that either.

Quite nice P&I, likely not much corrosion due to texas hangaring, but 50k minimum in the panel and God only knows what lies firewall forward.

The missiles on controller ... well, the red and white one Dave Slivka (good guy, go-to for MU2s) has been trying to get rid of since late 2019, and the blue and white one had a brutal collision with a stone mailbox before being re-built by Don Maxwell. Look at the thread on here for pictures. You'll need to decide if you're ok with that.

-J

[carusoam]

Missiles are coooool...

M20J with an IO550!  

There are quite a few around here...

Signs you have a speed addiction... you are looking at  Mooneys with IO550s...  

Best regards,

-a-