NOT Happy with Garmin...

[Immelman]

Scott... I take a sligtly contrarian view. Garmin is in business to make money. That's the only reason they're in business. To that end you can't blame them for trying to get as much revenue as they can.

That said, I agree with your displeasure at their business model to try to get folks to open their wallets repeatedly. I, personally, vote with my wallet, and fly around with a $300 lowrance GPS and a $500 iPad with $20 software all for all my charts. I want to add weather to the cockpit and am considering picking up a used 396 ($700) to get XM, or buying the ADS-B receiver for the ipad.

There's no rule that says we have to pay Garmin what they want for retail on a new device. These units have a long lifespan. I had a Garmin "GPS II+" I bought in 1998 or so, and it worked flawlessly for over 10 years. I eventually sold it on ebay for half of what I bought it for. Not bad!

[scottfromiowa]

I have a GNC 300XL, I had a 195 and a 496.  I have an E-Map.  I have a G-trex. I have a Dog tracking collar.  I have a 696.  I value the quality of Garmin products...I want them to continue to be a profitable viable company....BUT what they charge for updates and their refusal to continue to support/update software of existing viable units like the 696 is bull$%#^ in the current competitive market.  Just like you I will vote with my wallet.  My line in the sand.  Until Garmin lowers their prices on updates I'll continue to support the I-pad option.  I may get the ADS-B to eliminate weather subscription.  I have an i-pod jack so can lose the music with no big burden.  There is reasonable profit and there is monopolistic pricing.  That ship has sailed...for me at least.

[PTK]

Scott, I sense your frustration and I agree it is indeed frustrating. I also undestand your point.  My point was that there is no reason to continue to buy new handhelds every couple years. As I said my GPSMAP195 is not much different AS A HANDHELD NAVIGATOR than anything Garmin rolled out subsequent to it. Yes it's not color, it has no weather and some other bells and whistles etc etc. but it has approaches, an HSI, a nice size moving map and it is interfaced with my GTN750. As such it receives flightplan info from the 750 and displays it.  It is a very capable handheld navigator which serves me well. The other later handhelds have these extra bells but in their core they are handheld navigators just like my 195 which I plan to keep until it dies!! This was my point.

 

[scottfromiowa]

PK-Agree.  Didn't know the 195 had that ability to integrate with your panel mount.  That's nice.  With a GTN 750 of course you don't need the 696/796.  You've got all you need with the 195 as additional redundancy.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Right now there are 19 bids for a Garmin 696 and it's currently at $1750 with 4 hours to go on eBay.

It'll probably sell for around $2000.  Why don't you do the same, go buy a brand new unit, and your upgrade that you want Garmin to charge you for will be for a "reasonable" fee of about $800?

Do we even know if the Garmin 696 has the internal hardware to support what the 796 does??

[scottfromiowa]

Because I have a panel dock and panel opening to accept the 696.  Because I don't feel that the upgrade is worth $800 when I can get synthetic vision on I-Pad for $89.  Because Garmin has an uncertified (like my 696) for Experimental market with SAME features now offered on the 796.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: scottfromiowa

Because I have a panel dock and panel opening to accept the 696.  Because I don't feel that the upgrade is worth $800 when I can get synthetic vision on I-Pad for $89.  Because Garmin has an uncertified (like my 696) for Experimental market with SAME features now offered on the 796.

[Piloto]

Before you get a 796 I would suggest you hold on for the 896. It will include the Sports Illustrated Swim Suit calendar in 3D.

José

[scottfromiowa]

The 1096 is just around the next three corners too.  Isn't that a tax form?  On second thought maybe they should skip that one and go to an 1196.  I hear it will have GBTV.

[thinwing]

and the missing episodes of lost!!!!Well that does it they had me at the sports illus. swimsuit edition...sign me up !!!kpc

[RJBrown]

It appears that the Garmin business model is designed to extract as much profit from each sale as possible. The data  updates they sell are just repackaged data the government supplies free. All they do is reformat it and gouge like hell. The incremental improvements incorporated in the latest and greatest is hoped to be just enough to spur sales. They have only themselves for competition and know it.

Flip side is great service and well made products. I sent in a 296 two years ago because it would not work on batteries, otherwise it worked great. It was sent in without batteries or an antennae. It came back with the internal connection fixed, the software updated, a new antennae, the latest database and fresh batteries. No Charge! I only paid postage to them they returned it with NO bill at all.

Kind of a love /hate relationship. I love their stuff I hate the way they sell it.

[jetdriven]

Thats exactly how I feel about it.

[scottfromiowa]

I agree completely "Love/Hate relationship", but they DO now have serious competition in the hand held arena from the I-Pad.

[jetdriven]

Hopefully they an bring Garmin to earth.  600$ for an Aera 500? ok, sure.  We own one.  But 1200$ for an Aera 550? WTF? twice the price for a software change to allow XM weather?

 

Wait till the Avidyne iFD 540 comes out.  Garmin is going to have to come out of orbit to compete with that.

[orangemtl]

I lucked out when I bought my Acclaim, because I wound up with both WAAS and Synthetic Vision.  SynthVis is pretty nice: but, if I didn't have it, would I add it to the G1000 for TENS of thousnds of dollars?  Errr, no, thanks.  I'm fascinated by the ability to download it to the IPad.

My wife wants to carry her Ipad onboard: tell me, do you need an external antenna or add-on thingie (I'm very tech savvy, as you can tell by my vocabulary) to get reception?  I'd like to have GPS and SynthVis just as a backup: especially for a matter of a few hundred dollars, max. Heck, for that price I'll get a BOX of them and keep them in the luggage compartment!

[GeorgePerry]

I think the trends are for prices to decline.  With products like WingX Pro and SkyRadar ADS-B reciever for weather and others (foreflight etc) coming on line, I see a significant decline in both Garmin's portable GPS and XM weather's subscription based business models.  

IMO there are 5 major reasons to carry a portable. (your milage might vary)

(1) In cockpit NEXRAD Weather / SA's & TAF's / Winds Aloft, etc

(2) Back up GPS for the primary panel mount

(3) Moving Map / Synthetic Vision / Terrain avoindance

(4) Paperless Charts and Approach plates with aircraft overlay

(5) Airport information

1 and 4 are availible free through various sources.  2 Comes automatically with whatever device you use.  3 and 5 will require periodic updates, but are relatively inexpensive if you don't pay for the Garmin database subcription services.

Things can get expensive when you start talking about the subscription based updates to IFR Certified Panel mounted GPS systems.  If you own a panel mounted GPS and you want to keep it "legal" for IFR, then a subscription is required - No way around that.  Bottom line, for VFR flying there are numerous low cost options.  For IFR, the same options exsist, but the box mounted in the panel will cost you if you want to follow the rules to the letter.

[rbridges]

Quote: GeorgePerry

I think the trends are for prices to decline.  With products like WingX Pro and SkyRadar ADS-B reciever for weather and others (foreflight etc) coming on line, I see a significant decline in both Garmin's portable GPS and XM weather's subscription based business models.  

IMO there are 5 major reasons to carry a portable. (your milage might vary)

(1) In cockpit NEXRAD Weather / SA's & TAF's / Winds Aloft, etc

(2) Back up GPS for the primary panel mount

(3) Moving Map / Synthetic Vision / Terrain avoindance

(4) Paperless Charts and Approach plates with aircraft overlay

(5) Airport information

1 and 4 are availible free through various sources.  2 Comes automatically with whatever device you use.  3 and 5 will require periodic updates, but are relatively inexpensive if you don't pay for the Garmin database subcription services.

Things can get expensive when you start talking about the subscription based updates to IFR Certified Panel mounted GPS systems.  If you own a panel mounted GPS and you want to keep it "legal" for IFR, then a subscription is required - No way around that.  Bottom line, for VFR flying there are numerous low cost options.  For IFR, the same options exsist, but the box mounted in the panel will cost you if you want to follow the rules to the letter.

[jetdriven]

You can use a bad elf which plugs in to the ipad or a GNS5870 which is a bluetooth remote box.   both work, you can search they have been discussed on here the pros and cons.  Can you take a picrture of your acclaim in flight? I be tthat synthetic vision is reallty neat.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: scottfromiowa

They could charge for a software upgrade in the 696 to allow some of these new visual terrain features "without" the touchscreen capability.  They could upgrade an existing product and let it live on...but they don't.

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: flyboy0681

You are taking an overly simplistic view of the situation. Obviously you are not a software engineer (I am) or you would realize that one piece of software can not necessarily be "ported" over from one platform to another. If you've have ever tried to install Windows XP on a circa 1990 PC, you will know what I mean. The chipset used in the new 796 may be entirely different than the 696 and not capable of handling the demands of synthetic vision, which I assume is very processor intensive.

You also touched upon something in your response, "without the touchscreen capability". That alone speaks volumes as it implies Garmin would likely have to spend millions ripping out all logic linked to the touchscreen of the 796 so that it could run on the 696 using buttons.

[jetdriven]

At Oshkosh this year Garmin had the G3X on display with full PFD and MFD capability and etc etc for LSA's and experimentals for I think 9,000$.  Uncertified of course.  I have a hard time believing it really should cost 3X as much for a certified version. 

[scottfromiowa]

That's the one Jetdriven.  Nice Chipset.

[1964-M20E]

This goes back to my thoughts that if it is safe for the LSA and experimental folks why not for us.  They are flying around in the same airspace as we do.

[orangemtl]

Quote: jetdriven

You can use a bad elf which plugs in to the ipad or a GNS5870 which is a bluetooth remote box.   both work, you can search they have been discussed on here the pros and cons.  Can you take a picrture of your acclaim in flight? I be tthat synthetic vision is reallty neat.

[AndyFromCB]

Scott,

Being I am an elitist ass from another thread, here is my take on it. Garmin 696 is an old platform, it does not posses the horsepower and/or memory to do 3D synthetic vision. It simply cannot be upgraded to perform this functions at a decent speed. I was just as pissed off when I had to replace my broken down MX 20 to a MX 200 in my Arrow but in the end I am happy. I screen refresh rate is so much better. It's called progress and software capabilities will always be tied up to hardware.