DualRatedFlyer Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 7 hours ago, Ventus4 said: Dear mooniacs, Thank you for all suggestions. I wish to strictly adhere to the 1967 POH it comes with the plane and this is the reason of potential discrepancies you may have between your practice or your specific POH and the CL content. The intent was to make it a public relatively complete CL for the 1967 Executive M20F without ANY mods because the original POH lacks of modern CL template and lacks of emergency parts. (I integrate the list with what it was missing and verify that its various steps were in logical order respect the controls/switches position.) The reason I decide to make this public is to try to give something back to the community after being looking for sometimes and not find anything. Initially I was doing as suggested to split the lists in parts, but at the end I decide to put them in a single word file that everyone can modify at will. However if you notice when printed doubled face you will ends up having 3 simple sheets: 1 Preflight,2 Flight,3 Emergency. Thus you may device to bind them together or use just only one depending on the situation. Any other suggestions is more than welcome. The idea is to come up with a community verified better check list for the model. Thank you all Andrea Nice job! im a fan. Thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventus4 Posted November 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 Thank for all the comments. I'm glad to trigger this discussion. Regarding the format I also try the booklet version if someone wish to have it contact me with PM. For what matters I update my profile. I've been engaged with mooney because it looks to me it's the GA plane which has laminar flow wings and control rods as my almost 40years flying passion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 23 hours ago, Two7Victor said: Typo...Vfe should be 125 not 105. The hydraulic flaps on the M20E had a Vfe speed of 100 mph. The electric flaps ('69 and newer) went to 125 mph IIRC. Not sure what they are on the '66 (sure it's not a '67, built in late '66? Didn't think the F debuted until the 1967 model) F, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were 105 mph. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrixxer Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 9 hours ago, eman1200 said: for those who have owned for a while, only fly your own plane, and fly regularly, how much are you REALLY using a checklist? I only fly the same two (now three) planes all the time; M20F, SR22, and now (training) a BE76. All the checklists all the time (ForeFlight for the Mooney and the Duchess, and the one built into the Avidyne for the SR22). Even when I'm "just" flying the Mooney regularly and nothing else, there's always some stupid little thing I forget (like setting the DG to the compass, or resetting the fuel totalizer) if I don't run down the checklist. I love the electronic ones, too (I spent hours crafting the ones in ForeFlight), as it removes the possibility I'll accidentally skip over something and not realize it. It's marked "checked" or I didn't do it. It also lets me delay some checks (like, switching the mechanical fuel pump on, when I'm going to be sitting ~20 minutes waiting on an IFR release) and then go back and check those items off without forgetting them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydvrboy Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 5 hours ago, chrixxer said: The hydraulic flaps on the M20E had a Vfe speed of 100 mph. The electric flaps ('69 and newer) went to 125 mph IIRC. Not sure what they are on the '66 (sure it's not a '67, built in late '66? Didn't think the F debuted until the 1967 model) F, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were 105 mph. I don’t know about a ‘66 model, but I have a ‘67 built in ‘66. Surprise, flap speed is most definitely 105 mph. It went to 125 mph in ‘68 as I have that POH too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 13 hours ago, eman1200 said: I think we are in agreement... up to a point... It probably is the word ‘distraction’... In aviation, the word is used to describe cog errors that make you think something is done, when in fact it isn’t... The example often used... Flying around the traffic pattern for the second or third time... the pilot skips the check list and lands gear-up... he remembered putting the gear down, yet he scarped the belly... Turns out he had a mixed memory, he remembered the previous lap around the pattern and neglected to check that he didn’t put the gear down the last time... This is a typical cog overload situation that happens to all people... everyone has different limits depending on the day... If you remember having difficulty as a student pilot not being able to give position reports in the pattern... this is a related cog overload challenge... Something to recognize as you fall behind the plane... The check list is a simple Gumps check... often done twice... and an abbreviated one prior to touch down... No, it isn’t written down... it is memorized... Why is it done twice... humans have difficulty operating in high speed, changing environments... People that recognize being human has some challenges... use check lists... usually to save something like money, a giant pain, or their life depending on what the check list is for... There are a few typical missed items that get caught using simple check lists... 1) Ever climb without stowing the gear? (Not very often, but when it gets done you may laugh really loudly...) 2) Ever start cruising with your flaps still in the T/O position? This is tough on the spar they are mounted too... spar cracks are An expensive pain to fix... 3) Ever leave the fuel pump on in cruise? Many Mooney electric fuel pumps are not rated for continuous ops... OH can get expensive... 4) Gear up landing is the most painful... 5) my favorite check list... putting the plane away making sure everything is unplugged... a dead battery is an expensive mistake. When you find the ADSB device still plugged into the socket... Real life comes with extra things to do... ordinary humans multi-task until they hit their natural limit in the moment... Every day that limit may be different than the day before... Fortunately there are check lists that can keep these ordinary disasters from occurring... Using a checklist lowers risk... Having checklists memorized... is pretty cool... verbal mediation of memorized checklists hits all the bases... Some MSers I have flown with can announce their checklist while cruising through the flow at high speeds... that is awesome! Some check lists are paper... Some are electronic... Some are memorized... I have one piece of paper in a pamphlet style that covers 99% of everyday flying activities... PP thoughts only, I have studied a lot of brain goof ups just to keep up on things... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventus4 Posted November 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 I realize I wrote 1966 while it's 1967 sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventus4 Posted November 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 One funny tale ON checklist and memory: About 25 years ago I was downwind in my glider and... I forgot to extract the landing gear. Obviously I ends up in the belly on the grass runway. Not big damage but I took the glider to the shop because the fuselage needs to be checked anyhow. I took the glider back from the shop and guess what.... during the first flight.... I forgot to extract the landing gear AGAIN and this time I land on grave and really scrap the fuselage because the grass runway that time was wet and I did not like to make the fusolage dirty :-) My brain was taking care of the shining fuselage and forgot the LG :-) From that day on I check the gear on downwind, on base and also almost during the flare :-) Never ends up on the belly again. Ciao Andrea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikethewoods Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 For the love of God will someone please tell me where this Checklist Supplement came from. I've asked this dude how to email him (crickets), left comment on this video (crickets). He can't be the only person with this setup. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpilot Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 hour ago, ilikethewoods said: For the love of God will someone please tell me where this Checklist Supplement came from. I've asked this dude how to email him (crickets), left comment on this video (crickets). He can't be the only person with this setup. I really don't know about the checklist, but here are some leads: I think the video was posted by Blake Moore. Have you tried contacting Blake via this web site? https://americanflightschools.com/instructor/blake-moore/ OTOH the aircraft may be N7458V, owned by Sean Walsh.... https://twitter.com/mooney58victor Actually, it's Mooney N9058V, owned by Blake's dad Gary Moore in Littleton CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikethewoods Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 21 minutes ago, neilpilot said: I really don't know about the checklist, but here are some leads: I think the video was posted by Blake Moore. Have you tried contacting Blake via this web site? https://americanflightschools.com/instructor/blake-moore/ OTOH the aircraft may be N7458V, owned by Sean Walsh.... https://twitter.com/mooney58victor Thanks, at you're pointing me in the right direction. I appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 5:38 AM, Ventus4 said: I recently bought a 1966 M20F and prepared this checklist by taking information from the original 1967 POH, 1968 POH and for emergency M20J POH. I also add a couple of tables which computes the different speed vs weight. I suggest moving your Before Starting item #2: Seats / Belts / Shoulder Harness ........ Adjust / Secure to after engine start. In a cold start it shouldn't be an issue. In a *normal* hot start it shouldn't be an issue. In a hot start that unintentionally becomes a flooded start or in a flooded start it does become important. These last two instances have a much higher incidence of engine fire during start. It just happened to a friend of mine a month or so ago. He ended up inadvertently flooding it. The resultant start ended with an engine fire. Here's the text exchange: Him: I had an engine fire with a hot start yesterday after flying back from San Diego. I guess I flooded it and some fuel spit out the vent. It backfired and lit. It didn’t do any damage to anything other than paint. One wire got scorched a bit. Having to send the fuel air mixture regulator off for inspection. Thought it was going to total it. Me: That’s why I never intentionally flood an engine if I’m having difficulty with a hot start. Him: I will never do that again. Scarey when I heard a pop. And then about 30 seconds later I see smoke coming from bottom of engine compartment. Me: Also, I don’t buckle my seatbelt until after the engine has started, just in case I need to get out quickly - in a situation just like this, potentially. Him: Yes. That’s a smart idea. I grabbed my extinguisher which did shit. I was right by the fuel pumps and just pictured the entire thing blowing up. Completely missed the extinguisher at the fuel pump as it was on the post on the opposite side. Ran over to hangar and yelled to some guys to grab fire extinguishers and come to the fuel pumps on mean time on phone with 911 to send fire trucks. The poor kid who grabbed one extinguisher had it pointed at his face when he pulled the trigger and sprayed himself. We got it out with extinguishers. It was a cluster. Also called the FBO and said to send line guys with extinguisher because the people in the hangar were having a hard time finding extinguisher. The line guys drive to a fire in the fuel truck. WTF. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 I suggest moving your Before Starting item #2: Seats / Belts / Shoulder Harness ........ Adjust / Secure to after engine start. In a cold start it shouldn't be an issue. In a *normal* hot start it shouldn't be an issue. In a hot start that unintentionally becomes a flooded start or in a flooded start it does become important. These last two instances have a much higher incidence of engine fire during start. It just happened to a friend of mine a month or so ago. He ended up inadvertently flooding it. The resultant start ended with an engine fire. Here's the text exchange: Him: I had an engine fire with a hot start yesterday after flying back from San Diego. I guess I flooded it and some fuel spit out the vent. It backfired and lit. It didn’t do any damage to anything other than paint. One wire got scorched a bit. Having to send the fuel air mixture regulator off for inspection. Thought it was going to total it. Me: That’s why I never intentionally flood an engine if I’m having difficulty with a hot start. Him: I will never do that again. Scarey when I heard a pop. And then about 30 seconds later I see smoke coming from bottom of engine compartment. Me: Also, I don’t buckle my seatbelt until after the engine has started, just in case I need to get out quickly - in a situation just like this, potentially. Him: Yes. That’s a smart idea. I grabbed my extinguisher which did shit. I was right by the fuel pumps and just pictured the entire thing blowing up. Completely missed the extinguisher at the fuel pump as it was on the post on the opposite side. Ran over to hangar and yelled to some guys to grab fire extinguishers and come to the fuel pumps on mean time on phone with 911 to send fire trucks. The poor kid who grabbed one extinguisher had it pointed at his face when he pulled the trigger and sprayed himself. We got it out with extinguishers. It was a cluster. Also called the FBO and said to send line guys with extinguisher because the people in the hangar were having a hard time finding extinguisher. The line guys drive to a fire in the fuel truck. WTF. Holy crap! I’ve only had one experience with a fireball start and I never knew it happened until another plane near me said they saw a fireball coming out of my exhaust. I couldn’t imagine dealing with an active fire like you had.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Fletcher Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 I have an M20F 1975 and need location of Gear warning Limit Switches. Both lights are staying on even though aircraft is on the ground and naturally gear is down. Also doeas anyone know where you can get new warning lights. jnothpilot@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) On 12/4/2019 at 5:40 PM, John Fletcher said: I have an M20F 1975 and need location of Gear warning Limit Switches. Both lights are staying on even though aircraft is on the ground and naturally gear is down. Also doeas anyone know where you can get new warning lights. jnothpilot@aol.com The green light is supposed to be on when the plane is on the ground. Don't fix that. Sounds like you want to fix the gear unsafe red light. It might be best to look behind with the panel to start with. There is a fair amount of bare wires in a Mooney. The limit switches are in the belly next to the gear actuator. Here's the wiring diagram Mooney F 70s schmatics.pdf Edited December 6, 2019 by Yetti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 Unless, @John Fletcher has manual gear in his F? Manual gear has a tendency to not be locked down properly if the light is not indicating properly... There is a micro switch mounted in the down gear lock block responsible for lights and gear-up alarm... +1 on Yetti’s advice above... It is really unusual to have both lights on at the same time... in the manual gear example, they are both operated by the same switch... so when the switch is thrown, one goes on while the other goes off... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) On 12/3/2019 at 9:38 AM, ilikethewoods said: For the love of God will someone please tell me where this Checklist Supplement came from. I've asked this dude how to email him (crickets), left comment on this video (crickets). He can't be the only person with this setup. Thanks Looks like a personalized checklist. Self-made or from a flying club or school. Easy enough to create one from the basic checklist and your own flows. Edit. I just realized the style looked familiar. I've seen similar airline checklists. I don't know him personally, but Blake teaches or taught at Aspen Flying Club at my old home base at KAPA. Flies for SkyWest. No promises but I'll give him a shout. Edited December 6, 2019 by midlifeflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikethewoods Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 7 hours ago, midlifeflyer said: Looks like a personalized checklist. Self-made or from a flying club or school. Easy enough to create one from the basic checklist and your own flows. Edit. I just realized the style looked familiar. I've seen similar airline checklists. I don't know him personally, but Blake teaches or taught at Aspen Flying Club at my old home base at KAPA. Flies for SkyWest. No promises but I'll give him a shout. Sweet, Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Fletcher Posted December 7, 2019 Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 On 12/5/2019 at 11:40 PM, carusoam said: Unless, @John Fletcher has manual gear in his F? Manual gear has a tendency to not be locked down properly if the light is not indicating properly... There is a micro switch mounted in the down gear lock block responsible for lights and gear-up alarm... +1 on Yetti’s advice above... It is really unusual to have both lights on at the same time... in the manual gear example, they are both operated by the same switch... so when the switch is thrown, one goes on while the other goes off... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Fletcher Posted December 7, 2019 Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 It is electric gear and forgot to mention Horn stays on too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Fletcher Posted December 7, 2019 Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 On 12/5/2019 at 11:40 PM, carusoam said: Unless, @John Fletcher has manual gear in his F? Manual gear has a tendency to not be locked down properly if the light is not indicating properly... There is a micro switch mounted in the down gear lock block responsible for lights and gear-up alarm... +1 on Yetti’s advice above... It is really unusual to have both lights on at the same time... in the manual gear example, they are both operated by the same switch... so when the switch is thrown, one goes on while the other goes off... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Thanks for replies. It is electric gear and Horns stays on with warning light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 On 11/12/2019 at 10:09 AM, ArtVandelay said: Throttle 1”? That’s going to be ~1500 rpm! That’s a bit hard on the engine IMHO. Tom Not if you pull it back to 1100-1200 at start. Engines need air, fuel and spark to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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