Help with '69 E Pre-buy this week...

[M20E4ME]

Columbus...are you in Ohio Brian?

[flight2000]

I was a long, long time ago.  Actually, my brother lived in Columbus and just moved his family to Richmond, VA after a transfer.  I grew up just outside of Cleveland and my parents are still in Lorain.  I need to change my profile back now that I've decided to start posting again.

Brian

[M20E4ME]

so you have done some PIB trips I am sure! Those, as well as Kelly Is are fun...

[flight2000]

Not yet.  I normally just fly over them and stop at KLPR.  One of these days I'll make it out there when I have more time to visit.  I'm returning home finally on Tuesday and will be flying the wings off my plane to make up for lost time after being deployed for the last year.  I almost dropped you a PM since I've gone back and forth with selling my plane.  I received orders to move to Germany in August, but have since decided to keep the plane.  I've put to much into it in the past 24 months to sell at this point unless it was a really, really good offer... A close friend and owner of a 65 M20E will keep her for the 36 months we are overseas. 

Brian

[carusoam]

M20E4U,

Hear comes the black rain....

Go look at others for comparison.  If you have heard all used mooneys (airplanes in general) have corrosion, get out and see some others.  This particular puppy has more than most.

Looks like lots of small fuel leaks (not including the one at the drain) and surface corrosion everywhere.  The one that really stands out to me is the interior that looks like a rib with corrosion between the rib and the sheet metal.  The fasteners of the rib look like they have been corroded.  I hope in real life, they are not corroded, they just look that way in the photo.

Good news.  As for what looks like a big fuel leak, it is right at the fuel sump.  Either the sump was leaking because something was stuck in it, or the "o" ring seal between it and the tank is bad.  The brown color, is really what happens to the blue 100LL stain.  After enough of it is on the surface it turns brownish for some reason.  Many gallons of fuel have leaked out of that one spot.  sump drains are easy low cost replacable.  You and your mechanic can remove and clean in 15 minutes for proof.  If nothing else, clean the spot with a white towel and you will see the blue color emerge. 

Not so good news.  What concerned me (as far as fuel leaks) are similar brown stains at the fasteners in the area of the fuel tanks (outboard the wheel well).

For proper corrosion treatment, it would seem that each piece would need to be removed and individually treated and put back, assuming it is only surface related.  That is a lot of work.  If it is deeper, like between layers of the spar, the expenses deepen.

If somebody wants to bring this all back to life, it is going to take a fair amount of hard labor or a fist full of benjamins or dozens of AMU. 

Recomendation: It is a good time to have someone with an MSC level background in mooneys look at the level of corrosion.  You want to know that there isn't spar related corrosion or internal tube related corrosion.  This one has been outside long enough to warrent a serious PPI.

Financially speaking: protect yourself, seek independent proffesional help.

This is no small job that a mechanic will be able to cover easily.  As you seem to be doing already, continue to use extreme caution if you are moving forwards.

Best regards,

-a-

[jetdriven]

A lot of that is rust from steel screws.  Also, the flap up stop is a steel part and rusty.  Same with the nose gear.  You get 10% thickness on that stuff, but its a lot of work, and unless the price is cheap, not worth the time.  If the spar has any corrosion, the repair costs will total it.

[M20E4ME]

At this point I am moving on. I don't think it is possible that all of this corrosion would be only on the surface. Too much of it and too many years at a tiedown. I am not really interested in fully restoring an old airplane. My grandfather once told me to let other people restore things (cars, airplanes, etc..)and then purchase them from those owners. They will almost never recoup the $$ put in and you will get a great deal. He had a successful Aircraft brokerage for many years. I think I will take that advice. My Cherokee was a great airplane and I am looking for the same on this next venture....of course there are always risks, but we have to try to minimize those and I would like to think of myself as "cautiously optimistic"

I just don't think an A&P can "clean up" this big of a mess. I think it will be a "cover up" and I feel sorry for the one that will end up with this one. Someone will...it's cheap.

If I was to consider someone tearing into this one, it would have to be someone like my paint guy Mark in TN or a MSC. And either of them would probably advise against it, or do it at the cost of $$$$$$$.

[M20E4ME]

Quote: jetdriven

A lot of that is rust from steel screws.  Also, the flap up stop is a steel part and rusty.  Same with the nose gear.  You get 10% thickness on that stuff, but its a lot of work, and unless the price is cheap, not worth the time.  If the spar has any corrosion, the repair costs will total it.

[lahso]

You made a good decision. Thanks for the pics and update. Keep looking, as there are many good Mooneys for sale out there.

[Shadrach]

I would have moved on as well. From what I see, this machine is servicable/repairable, but it needs a lot of TLC and unless there willing to discount it deeply, I think it's good that you walked. I think the fuel stains look suspect... I have localized staining in a number of areas, and they are blue to brownish blue, nothing like the color of those stains. 

[rbridges]

40+ years can be hard on anything.  looks like that bird has seen a lot of weather.  There are many better examples to choose, so I would walk, too.

[N33GG]

Good choice to move on to something else, IMHO.  I have one comment about planes that look like that:  RUN AWAY!

[KSMooniac]

I'm afraid it might be time for that plane to be parted and recycled... the corrosion is likely everywhere and unlikely to be an economical repair.

[DaV8or]

Quote: KSMooniac

I'm afraid it might be time for that plane to be parted and recycled... the corrosion is likely everywhere and unlikely to be an economical repair.

[richardheitzman]

I am very happy that you were able to move off this aircraft. Sometimes, the corrosion is hard to spot, because the mechanic has "claened it up".

Keep up the search. This is a great place to find good aircraft for sale. Good Luck

[M20E4ME]

Well...the A&P that did the pre-buy left me a message. He "cleaned" up and bead blasted all the exterior corroded parts and spot painted them...a "mask" IMO. I saw too much bad corrosion and some on seams inside the fuselage. Someone will indeed get this NY based 1969 E model (it is priced cheap) and will probably get a surprise if they do not have a good pre-buy done and have not dont their diligence.

[N33GG]

Good decision making, IMHO.  Congrats.  

There are plenty of good clean aircraft out there, and this is a buyer's market like I have never seen.  A little effort and patience should pay off.

Good luck with your search.